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1921 Census


RATTY
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Findmypast reaffirm January release date for 1921 Census. It was thought it would be delayed by Covid but at present it's on track for sometime that month


And have you used the new familysearch user interface, what do you think? I think it's pants. It's like sleeping on the wrong side of the bed, driving on the wrong side of the road, it takes more steps to do a simple search, probably to look better on a phone,  what is wrong with designers these days?
 

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  • 1 month later...

Census hubs are being set up for the  release of the 1921 on January 6th, these are places where you will be able to see the census for free.  National archives will provide free access via findmypast at their site, also  Manchester Central Library and National Library of Wales will provide the same. Findmypast are giving access via pay per view, I can do this now because I have an account even though I am not subscribed, I don't know if you can still do this without an account though.

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It will be really interesting to pick up on the extra detail contained in this census such as:-

Apart from people’s birthplaces, names, ages and jobs, the questionnaire also recorded who lived in a home at that particular time, as well as occupants’ relationship to the head of the household – putting their stories in the context of their families and communities.

The 1921 census is more detailed than any previous one taken, as it asked people about their place of work, employer and industry for the first time, as well as whether they were in full-time or part-time education.

Unlike in earlier surveys, respondents could select “Divorced” as an option for marital status.

The census also asked whether children were orphaned, revealing the impact of the First World War, with 730,000 children recorded with “Father dead” compared with 260,000 with “Mother dead”.

 

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At Findmypast it is going to be £2.50 to see a transcript and £3.50 to see the original record with 10% off for subscribers, don't think I will be rushing to view that many!

Edited by Tony J
typo
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Me neither. We should have known that it'd be like that. Yep, sneaking suspicions realised.

10% off if you're a member - a 25p discount for a transcription, or 35p off to view an image.

Killjoys. I think that I've lost all enthusiasm.

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Can anyone remember how long it took for the 1939 register to become a part of the normal FMP subscription or how long it took for Ancestry to make it a part of their subscription? Was it a couple of years before Ancestry and the others got it? I wonder what the timescale for this one will be - if they ever let it go at all?


added 3 minutes later

Micro-payments. Ha.


added 6 minutes later

A quick Google.

 
Quote

 

Will the 1921 Census be released on ancestry?
 
 
Unlike other UK censuses, the 1921 census will exclusively be released on Findmypast. At this time, there's no indication that 1921 census records will be available on other sites like Ancestry.com or FamilySearch.

 

 
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I think there will be a trial period where it is pay per view and then it will only be available on their top subscription PRO. it is under contract to TNA and they will have an exclusivity period so I imagine it will eventually end up on Ancestry etc
The cost to view a transcription is £2.50. To download an image £3.50. This is on top of your membership.
"For all 12-month Pro subscribers, there will be a 10% discount on any 1921 Census purchases."
I reckon they did this to recoup the outlay and to prevent thousands of look up requests that would not make them any money.

Guy Etchells contributed this:


The contract runs 10 years and Findmypast not only have to recoup the huge outlay made in digitising, transcribing, linking images etc., in that limited exclusive contract period. In addition they also have to pay the National Archive a annual licence fee to host the images on their (FindMyPast) website.


See :

BIDSTATS.UK

The National Archives is seeking expressions of interest for the 1921 Census records digitisation an... A Contract Award Notice by...


After 2028 other online providers will be allowed to host the 1921 census images on their own websites and make their own transcripts.
Incidentally the 100 year period starts from the end of the year the census was taken, both for England & Wales and Scotland, that is why both census cannot be released until the 1st January 2022.

1911 was available pay per view from Jan 2009
It was included in subs in November 2009
£6.95 for 60 credits which lasted 90 days
pay per view was one household for 30 credits or transcription for 10 credits

1939 register when first released was £6.95 per household, so it's cheaper than that.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So what happens when you either pay for a transcription or an image? One answer is that you've got the information that you've been waiting for. Obvious, yes, but you're not really going to be able to attach it to people in your tree as sources. Well, it might be possible to do that with a tree on FMP, but I don't think that you can have a 'public' tree on FMP, although you can share it with other members. So anyway, you've attached the household records to various people in that tree, but people with access to the tree aren't going to be able to open them without paying.

Another thing I'm thinking about is when people download the scans and then upload them to their trees on Ancestry. I've seen people downloading and then uploading the scans from the other census collections to their tree galleries - in order to be able to show them to the tree invitees who don't have subscriptions. I've never done that but I've seen plenty trees where others have. It's probably a bit of a pain for Ancestry when that happens and I'm not sure of the 'legality' of that sort of thing, but I think that we'll probably be seeing that happening with 1921.

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Hmm! good questions, I can't find any discussion out there on the use of other site data. Only a ban on copying site data which probably means their formatting etc. I hardly link to the records anymore, I just download them and attach to my private tree. I know that if you stop subbing to a site then you lose access to those records you have accessed and attached and that gedcoms don't include them so perhaps that's a way round it.. I suppose there may be a way of making them disappear if you include a  source link to another site but I doubt they would keep tabs on every tree out there to prevent you attaching one or two census records.

We will soon find out I suppose. 

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Useful info for the records here 

WWW.FINDMYPAST.CO.UK

In partnership with The National Archives, we’re delighted to bring you the 1921 Census of England and Wales, a detailed snapshot of...

 

If you opt for a transcript you get all the info you want, it will list all people and their info you can click on each member of household and get their info displayed with an extra column for address of employer, on the one I got some birth places weren't clear and the individual showed more detail.

If you opt for the image you get the back page listing household members and their info but you can then click on extras tab on the bottom of the page and one of those images is where the full address of the family will be, don't forget to download this because it isn't present in the usual way. 


added 56 minutes later

TIP: If you choose one of the results  for a name and you choose a transcript, click on the  result, there is weird window at the top of the next page which should show other persons present if you scroll it up.

Alternatively if you have a few results to a search, it shows at the right side of each result, two icons, one for transcript and one for image, if you hover the mouse on either of those it will show other persons present, this helped me to choose the correct one as I knew who should have been there. I had one with a wrong place of birth transcribed but this told me he was with his parents Rowland and Fanny :D  Very useful.

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I'm a bit underwhelmed if I'm being honest.  I can see it will be useful BUT having to pay to view any entry you are interested in can easily run up large bills.  I did one look-up this morning and paid (more expensive for me as I am euro and rate against the £ is high) and it was who I was looking for but as for further look-ups - no, not unless I am absolutely sure the person I am looking for is right.  Details are good but I wouldn't say there is much more info than on the 1911.

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@mishka Does it tell you how many years married and how many children alive and dead like 1911?

So far i haven't paid for anything but of my grandparents and their siblings all married just before then, have worked out who was living with whom.

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No It doesn't have any details for marriage but the last column is for parent to list all children and step children born that are under 16 and their age last birthday

It tells you how old in years and months for all and children have to say if one or both parents are alive and if they attend school full time or half time, one of mine was part time school and part time work at Pilks, occupation is given and then address of place of work (that has been  an interesting detail for me , you could guess before but not know for sure)


added 3 minutes later

Mishka try the hover thing, it may help if you know who should be there


added 20 minutes later

For instance GG Grandad was a cooper, I always knew that but now I know he was a copper at The English Margarine Company in Broad Green, a very good company that looked after its workers.

Also My Grandad trained as a cabinet maker at A&E Pardoe in Duke Street,  he fixed clocks and worked on the buses and in the stores in the army but I never knew that he made furniture.


added 23 minutes later

Another thing I should mention is to check in those extra pages that there isn't an extra page of the census because there wasnt enough space to fit them all, I almost missed one.

I had ten to find and found them all, not that I have bought all I will finish it off next month.


added 24 minutes later

*English Margarine Works that should be

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Thanks for the tips Ratty - I was lucky, the person I was looking for - my great grandmother - was presumed dead according to family rumour and speculation but she was there, alive and well.  Bit of a shock!  There were only 3 in the household, all over 60 and I do know the family members.  She was a visitor to her sister's - and I have a feeling she was there to see her daughter, my Nan, who she deserted when my Nan was 8, as my Dad was due to be born when that census was taken.  The place of work given for my g/gran WAS a help - a silk mill in Bradford!!  How the hell she had morphed from being an inmate in the women's prison in Manchester, a Sally army shelter and then a maidservant in 1911 in Bolton will always be a mystery but I will do further digging at sometime.  Next stop for me is the Isle of Man when I can be bothered.

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Got a few of the images. When you download them, make sure that you're not only downloading the census page with the people. Open 'Extra Materials' to download the front page with the address. You can also get a map and some other bits if you want them.

I put the household images into a Dropbox folder for sharing via links. E.g. this link opens a folder with the ones that I downloaded for the maternal grandmother who was living with her widowed dad and two of her brothers at 171 Windleshaw Road.

Then on Ancestry for each person I create a web link to that Dropbox folder with title '1921 Census Images'

Then again on each person's page I use the +Add (fact), choose Residence, put '19 Jun 1921', town/city-county, then in the description I put the address. Once that's done it's done.


added 21 minutes later

Not really many surprises. G grandfather was working for Pilks over at Gerard's Bridge, while grandmother had taken over domestic duties following the death of her mother the previous year. A slight surprise with paternal grandfather who was living at home with parents but not working on his dad's farm but on a different farm that I'll have to see if I can find.


added 34 minutes later

Something interesting. You can list all the people employed by Pilks.
 

 

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Interesting. a good few of my families appear there. Most of those I've bought were glass men. one I've recently researched, the family came from the glass industry in Stourbridge which was in decline.

 

Here is a list of the occupation codes that appear on this census, helpful as it  it drills down to a bit more detail than is actually given.

 

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I wanted to capture a list of people who were working at the Pilkington Gerards Bridge glass works rather than all 4,447 people with a generic 'Pilkington Glass' search, I tried that with 'Pilkington Glass Gerards' and it only showed 14 results - not including the great grandfather and his son. I wouldn't really mind grabbing them all after encouragement, but would it really be of much use?

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure it was Gerard's Bridge?


added 6 minutes later

Under Pilkington Brothers comes Isaac and Elias Pye. If you use Cowley Hill only one of these come up so perhaps that was his address


added 11 minutes later

(born 1885 and 1853 )

If you put Pilkington Works in you get Martha and  Richard Pye 1902 and 1858


added 43 minutes later

Add to that last John and Margaret Pye 1898 1895. I've just noticed that the list is not strictly alphabetical it goes round and round for some reason

Edited by RATTY
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