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RATTY

Critchley Burials

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I've been checking back making sure I've got all the main BMDs and sources for this family and Henderson.

Having trouble with this one 

Burial record of William Critchley born 1793 in Newton, last known address Pilkington Row in1861 with his daughter aged 69.  Alison Bilton's tree gives the date of burial 12 September 1869 in Sutton, possibly a mis-transcribe or perhaps actual date of death because (DAVE) you have a BT record for burial in St Helens 17 September 1869 Wm Critchley  Abode St Helens. age 65... But where was he buried? The burial was done by J J Draper, that's John J Draper who did do a few burials at Rainford All Saints  at that time.

Some Critchley's were buried from there from Prescot and St Helens so that's ok but I can not find the transcribed record in Lan OPC for that same date. 

There is one for that name for All Saints for 10 JUly 1865 age 70 Abode Prescot though which I feel fits better by dates but not  address.....but still where is the grave?

I'm looking for the wife Martha too died before 1841 I suspect this to be her

 

Burial: 26 Feb 1834 St Mary (now St Helen), St Helens, Lancashire, England
Martha Critchley -
    Age: 40
    Abode: Sutton
    Buried by: T. Pigot
    Register: Burials 1813 - 1836 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page [255], Entry 2034
    Source: LDS Film 1469036

Edited by RATTY

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Hi, Ratty,

is this the William Critchley:

Birth 25 June 1790 in Newton in Makerfield. Parents Henry Critchley / Betty Fairhurst.

Died 122 Sept 1869 in Sutton (St. Helens).

Married Martha Pusill at St. Elphin's, Warrington on 24 Aug 1819.

Martha died Feb 1834.

Father James Pusill 1763 - 1819

Mother Margaret Wood 1764 - ?

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That's them yes, birth date is slightly different every time you find something

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Burial for William Critchley:17 September 1869
Lancashire, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1986

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Martha's burial: 26 Feb 1834 Prescot, St Helens, Lancashire, England

(same source)


added 2 minutes later

William's age 65. Martha age 40.

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Yep. It is a screw up, isn't it. Like you say, his birth year is all over the place as well.


added 1 minute later

He married his dad's second wife's sister. :) 

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Any idea where the graves are?

You don't think its likely its that one in 1867 age 70? he died at Whiston Union

 

 

Edited by RATTY

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What doesn't say what?  :)

 


added 1 minute later
9 minutes ago, Dave said:

He married his dad's second wife's sister. :)

I remember you told me that.

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WWW.ANCESTRY.CO.UK

 

Although I don't suppose that you're subbing...

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added 4 minutes later
15 minutes ago, RATTY said:

You don't think its likely its that one in 1867 age 70? he died at Whiston Union

Could be. Everyone else has him as being buried in 1869 though.

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I have those parish recs from ancestry. As I said above that burial of William would have been from Rainford, the one for Martha from Parish Church. I could send for the cert for him but which one?  a grave may solve it 


added 3 minutes later

This is the one for 1867 Prescot St Mary died at Whiston Workhouse

4ev1mx78iyh409g?preserve_transparency=Fa
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Well you should be more bothered than I am because he's your gggg grandfather and he is only my gggg uncle. :)

Even with the funny dates I know that I have that relationship with him due to quite a few DNA matches down his side, towards you and others. Due to some of the uncertainty with dates, etc., and your William, I used to wonder if the paper-trail research by Alison and Rosalind, et al, might have been a bit off, questioning if Henry and William were really brothers, etc., but it seems that the research was right.

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Yes me too, because the records were thin on the ground then, not easy to come by. Also there are about three W Critchleys around in this same timeframe one in Wigan one Bold some others in Pescot one family even has same kids names

 

Here's that other for 1865 in Rainford Chapel

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pn5cfefl6sqvyi2/critchley2 4425459_00369.jpg?dl=0


added 4 minutes later

Prescot Cemetery is a mess, what's the situation in Rainford? Anything left.

I wonder why his wife would be at  St Mary and he Rainford though, this is why I lean towards the Whiston Union one because it could be feasible he was sent in to hospital and Prescot being the chapel in the grounds .....

 

As you say, it doesn't much matter to you.

Edited by RATTY

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I'm looking at William & Henry's younger brother John at the moment (also a brickmaker).

Born about 1804, in 1841 he was age 37, with a 12 year old Elizabeth and a 7 year old John - the surname then was Crouchley. Looks like Chapel Lane, Winwick, Lowton - if it is this John.

In 1851 he's 47 living with widowed William at Parr Street and the kids he'd had with Martha. It says that John is married but no sign of a wife.

In 1861 John, 57, is listed as an uncle living with John and Mary Harks and Mary's children at Victoria Street. Mary must've been previously married to <somebody> Sephton.  Is John the uncle of John or Mary?

I remember Rosalind mentioning these and I wasn't taking much notice. Any ideas?


added 46 minutes later

Just to add to that. There's a marriage of a George Sephton to Mary Critchley at Rainford on 04/08/1844

Interestingly, the above couple were witnesses at the marriage of my gg grandfather Henry Critchley (William & John's nephew) and Sarah Hill the year before at Rainford 09/07/1843.

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I remember the name Sephton

I'll have to write it all out, I'm a bit googly eyed now


added 3 minutes later

There was a note under that census left by someone else to say he was the brother of not son of

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Looking at it, Mary must've split up with George and she went living with John Harks - as Harks at Victoria Street, but no marriages exist. She was the sister of my gg grandfather Henry (1824-1882). John Critchley would have been her great uncle. It is a bit of a mess.

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Never bloody simple are they


added 3 minutes later

Think I must be too old

 

In 1851 at Parr Street he is with his wife Ann children James and Mary and the kids James born Eccleston and Mary born Staleybridge Cheshire**

Ann is from Sutton so that's not the reason


added 53 minutes later

In 1841 John (silk weaver) is right next door to William Crouchley 61 SilkWeaver and wife Ellen children Eliz,Ellen and Alice 


added 54 minutes later

Marriage

7
10
1822 John CRITCHLEY Ann MARTINDALE Prescot St Mary
Edited by RATTY
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From that 1861 with Critchley Harks and Sephton, if you GRO the kids there, two of them the mothers maiden name was Critchley, two younger ones had Lee and Leigh, not helpful I know

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I think it's this

1861 Victoria Street John Harks and Mary Harks born 1825 nee Critchley, her father Henry Critchley, mother Elizabeth (this is Johns brother Henry Crouchley born 1797 Newton  and also Williams brother, their father being Henry Crouchley and Mother Betty Fairhurst)

This Henry married and Elizabeth sometime after 1800, there is a marriage at Rainford All saints of Henry Critchley and Elizabeth Lathom  1822 witnesses are Thomas and Sarah Critchley.

 

Children listed at the same address 1861 are Sephtons Henry born 1844 William born 1846 James born 1854 Ann born 1860 all stepchildren

There is a marriage of Mary Critchley (minor age 19) to George Sephton 4/8/1844 Rainford All Saints her father is Henry Critchley a labourer 

I can't find a marriage for a Mary Sephton the John Harks though or a death of George Sephton. Remember I said that only two of the kids are Sephton's the others were Leigh/Lee , there is a gap between them of 8years, that seem  strange doesn't it. The last child is only 7 months old too.

So, John Critchley is Uncle to Mary Harks nee Sephton nee Critchley if that was all legal and above board. Could check the Indy records I suppose..

 

Henry Crouchley b 1766 M Betty Fairhurst b1766

|

William 1793 ish--------------------------- Martha Pusill

Henry 1797 ----------------------------------Elizabeth Lathom ? 1822 Rainford  Children James 1823 Mary 1825* Robert 1827 Elizabeth 1831 Alice 1836 William ? Henry ?

John 1804   _____________________Ann ? born Sutton who died in 1859 aged 55 STHELCEM 14/157 alone. Can not find a marriage that fits this anywhere, children on the 1861 with them have possible mothers name Allen,Harrison or Woods, the only Woods I can find is Mary marriage 1822 Rainford. It could have been a second marriage however so her name could be anything.

There is a Bap at Farnworth for a Mary Critchley in 1841whose father is John, a bricklayer in Eccleston but he is married to Rachel. ?

 

I don't like all this, too untidy, too many loose edges.

 

 

 

 

 


added 32 minutes later

Oh I forgot

I found this marriage

John Critchley to  Ann Martindale in 1825 at Prescot St Mary. The Banns record says they both live Sutton

Witnesses James Martindale and Margaret Dixon

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I just cut a load here because I had the wrong mother, and you already had the records saved anyway so you know.

so, on the 1861 Census where Mary is married to Harks, she is listed as born Burtonwood, I hadn't noticed that until I found this : so the mother isn't Elizabeth like  I said but Ann Leicester


England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 No Image
Name:    Mary Critchley
Baptism Date:    1826
Baptism Place:    Burton-Wood, Lancashire, England
Father:    Henry Critchley
Mother:    Ann
FHL Film Number:    1655853
Reference ID:    79
 

 

 

Did you notice on the census 1841 ChapelLane Lowton, Winwick there are three families Crouchley next to each other?
First James and Isabella with Ann
second William and Ellen with Eliz, Ellen Alice
third  John 1804 and Elizabeth with John 
All of them Silk weavers
Are these anything to us?


added 0 minutes later
On 18/10/2020 at 17:44, Dave said:

Although I don't suppose that you're subbing...

I am subbing, are you subbing FMP by any chance? 

Edited by RATTY

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No, I'm not subbing to FMP. It probably would be useful but I'm putting that off until 2022. Just Ancestry at the moment. I just wish I could remember what Rosalind said about those Harks people.

 

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Can't trace him, every time I search I get sent Horrocks records. Harkes gets records from Preston, Maybe that's just the abysmal state of the search in Ancestry just now.


added 13 minutes later

No marriage exists


added 15 minutes later

They've stopped those 60 credit tickets on FMP, I've moaned. Have to wait for a free day, of which are few and far between these days.

 

Edited by RATTY

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I wonder if it was just a made up name? The record shows him as being 24 while she was 35. Probably an early episode of people leading chaotic lives. A lot of people (including me, I see) have George Sephton as dying in 1893 - obviously based on a GRO record of Q2 1893, age 73. It may be him, but then it may not be him. In 1861, while Mary is 'Harks' over at Victoria Street, they have him as a married (no wife with him) lodger at 40 Eccleston Street - also there is a 70 year old William Sephton, father of the Jane Owen who is married to head of house George Owen. Trees of the said William Sephton don't include a daughter Jane, but that William's wife was supposedly a Jane (Ward). A lot of it doesn't really add up.

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Yeah I agree, It was hellish confusing searching through as there are so many families of similar age all with similar names including children's names, gave me  a right headache.

I had trouble finding marriages and burials, normally I'd come across that sort of thing in Catholics but I suppose that's not the reason here.  I had a feeling this family name was trouble, it took me ages to get up the enthusiasm to pick it up again. Thanks be for Alison Bilton and Rachel I say.

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