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Hi Everyone!

Have been researching family history for a while now, but have been unable to progress further with John Swift & his wife Ellen (my 3 x Gt Grand parents).  John's father was  Edward Swift (1791 - 1871) & his mother was Jane (Kay) (1786 - 1870).


John's wife Ellen was the daughter of Henry Rimmer (1794 - 1866) & Elizabeth (Tickle) (1796 - 18180) & there are records which list John & Ellen's children as living with her parents, but have never been able to establish the reason.  There are a few records which may suggest that Ellen died young & John remarried, but I haven't been able to establish whether it is the same John Swift.


Any help on this would be very much appreciated.


Many thanks



Julie Robinson

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I think I have some of these names in my family, Ill take  a look.

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Not much to find.

I thought I had a burial of John Swift at Prescot Cemetery but the BT says he was from Sutton, dates all fitted too.

I found his parents burials at Huyton Parish Church and can see the probate records for her parents (Rimmers), the fathers has a codicil so it may be worth sending for that. I'll post details if you want them.

But I haven't found John or Ellen's deaths,  there are possible registrations of deaths on the free BMG but not on the GRO Doh!

Can see the 41 census for them and one child, then the children with grandparents and no sign of them that year, then the 61 census is missing as usual for this area, possible misspelling or destruction( That would have helped greatly.)  I can even follow the son Henry until he dies in Elephant Lane.

Can also see the marriages in Huyton. I think you need to check all the churches there for information, there's nothing here that I can see.

I have Kays in my tree which could match Jane Kay but I'm not that far back. I also have Tickles who were small farmers at Warrington, under the Barton Bridge. So there could be an obscure connection there but nothing of help to you. 


Came across an Ellen Pye born 1856 mothers name Rimmer. Shes on 1871 census for Henry Rimmers  Widow Elizabeth as her grandaughter. Found a marriage for a Joseph Pye to Ann Rimmer in 1853 in case you were wondering.

That's all I'm afraid. I'd get the wills.

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Thank you so much for all your help.

I will try & send off for Henry Rimmer's will, would it be possible to send me the details, please.


Again - many thanks for your time, it is much appreciated.



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Happy to help Julie :)


Here is a link to the page of the Index from Ancestry. https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkwep9ucncarbbq/Rimmer_Probate_31874_222847-00140.jpg?dl=0

The full source title is:
England & Wales National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
1880 Rabbets-Slyfield

You want RIMMER ELIZABETH died 21 Jan 1880 at Parr Probate date was 24/9/1880
and RIMMER HENRY died 29 Jan 1866  at Whiston. Probate date is 12/10/1880 for this, I'm not quite sure why but it may be connected to his wife's death. Their sons Robert and Thomas lived in Parr. Mr Molyneux being the link connecting both.

When ordering you will need both the date of death and of probate and the place of probate, which was Liverpool
You can order by post from Principal Probate Registry at First Avenue House or any district probate registry. link here https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

or search and order online, link here:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar   Both only cost £1.50 I think.
When searching on there, input his wife's name and date of death and you get both hers and his on one page(the ancestry record is the same) So fill in the order form for hers and then do another search for him with 1880 at date of death then fill in the form at the side with his correct details. I looked and there isn't an entry for him in 1866.
The Folio is irrelevant as there isn't one, its usually written just underneath the name.

I've not done this for a while and I used to order from Liverpool I think, it cost a fiver then but they changed the system since. DAVE might be abe to add to this because he has recently ordered in the new way.

You may get more details or not but it will have only cost a few quid. 

You may never find the certain reason why the children went to gandparents but it looks likely they died together or close together. I would scour the church burial records for Huyton, particularly near to Tarboc end. Sorry but I don't have access those records and there aren't many online. Try Huyton or Prescot libraries and find out when the local history society goes there, they will be glad to help you find the burials. You can also sometimes find people with the relevant parish records on rootschat forums.

Lots of info I know but ask again if you need help.


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