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Terence Price

St Helens Bus Review April 2019

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Information for the upcoming St Helens Bus Review are now online and so far there are 3 Services no where to be seen:

 

12 St Helens - Ravenhead (Sunday)
156 St Helens - Ashton (Eve/Sun
602 Newton - Ashton In Makerfield (Eve/Sun)

Also some Tenders have more than one option so if the worst options are picked that would lead to the loss of:

60 St Helens - Hard Lane (Eve/Sun)
111 Lea Green - Parr (1 Morning Trip)
141 St Helens - Rainhill. (Eve/Sun)

Full Information can be found at the following link.
https://procontract.due-north.com/Advert?advertId=0e9d7848-edeb-e811-80ef-005056b64545&p=e0cc5631-4690-e511-80fb-000c29c9ba21&fbclid=IwAR0N2DuJf6aLvB87TiKwEhOZNSa8gYCChhdg4qEzdox2ESOQDKMK_VIOES8

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Just spotted this.I noted your previous concerns.

I will just put a couple of comments on then go on the link.

Ive shopped around town and young families get taxis between themselves- cheaper than bus and straight to door.

Some residents in billinge dont like being on a community subsidIsed bus route.Esp AVON ROAD.Others say the bus is too big and wont allow them to leave their caravans on road instead of on drive. There wrre knocks.

Wonder if they will remove many of the nearly empty 10 10a Arriva and Stagecoach to go on other routes like those you mention? 

 

added 13 minutes later
On 28/11/2018 at 16:30, Terence Price said:

Information for the upcoming St Helens Bus Review are now online and so far there are 3 Services no where to be seen:

 

12 St Helens - Ravenhead (Sunday)
156 St Helens - Ashton (Eve/Sun
602 Newton - Ashton In Makerfield (Eve/Sun)

Also some Tenders have more than one option so if the worst options are picked that would lead to the loss of:

60 St Helens - Hard Lane (Eve/Sun)
111 Lea Green - Parr (1 Morning Trip)
141 St Helens - Rainhill. (Eve/Sun)

Full Information can be found at the following link.
https://procontract.due-north.com/Advert?advertId=0e9d7848-edeb-e811-80ef-005056b64545&p=e0cc5631-4690-e511-80fb-000c29c9ba21&fbclid=IwAR0N2DuJf6aLvB87TiKwEhOZNSa8gYCChhdg4qEzdox2ESOQDKMK_VIOES8

Link dont work.msy gave to adk a bus driver?

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On 28/11/2018 at 16:30, Terence Price said:

Information for the upcoming St Helens Bus Review are now online and so far there are 3 Services no where to be seen:

 

12 St Helens - Ravenhead (Sunday)
156 St Helens - Ashton (Eve/Sun
602 Newton - Ashton In Makerfield (Eve/Sun)

Also some Tenders have more than one option so if the worst options are picked that would lead to the loss of:

60 St Helens - Hard Lane (Eve/Sun)
111 Lea Green - Parr (1 Morning Trip)
141 St Helens - Rainhill. (Eve/Sun)

Full Information can be found at the following link.
https://procontract.due-north.com/Advert?advertId=0e9d7848-edeb-e811-80ef-005056b64545&p=e0cc5631-4690-e511-80fb-000c29c9ba21&fbclid=IwAR0N2DuJf6aLvB87TiKwEhOZNSa8gYCChhdg4qEzdox2ESOQDKMK_VIOES8

Link dont work.msy gave to adk a bus driver?

added 2 minutes later

Hi.if you look at how your link shows in both your original and your reply.You can see its not shown in the original as an operable link.The reply does and it does work. Now its trawling through. 

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I missed your comments about the 10/10A, In recent years 2 Buses and hour has been taken off the 10 and 2 Buses an hour has been taken off the 10A (1 for each company). The 10 and 10A are high frequency routes as they do get very busy, more so between Prescot and Liverpool, They also get very busy at peak times due to a high number of students using the services and the number of Hospitals on/Near the route. 

This review is not looking at them 2 routes anyway its looking at the routes that get funding because not enough people use them to make it commercially viable such as the 137 to Billinge you mention, That route is protected now until January 2022 and depending on what happens with the 111 it could get an extra morning trip

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The prob with 137 is that its a "rural" route.It runs with 352 and 32a in part.The logistics of the number of potential passengers say if it still competed on 32a route is that amyone wanting yo go to billinge may not be able to get on.It is a complicated route.352 is QUICKER but dearer.

So it cannot be competitive cos arriva moan!Thats why route was moved.

Rainford sadly suffers since routes to ormskirk and southport were revised.

Maybe the 10 and 10a route could be treated as 2 distinct routes to and from PRESCOT HUB?with the 89 as well. I think the routes are too long.

 

.

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There is nothing wrong with the 10 and 10A as they currently are now Deckers operate for both operators

 

The 137 is currently operated by HTL Buses as they put in the lowest bid

 

I believe Rainford will be getting a half hourly 38 again some point next year, one was cut back due to works at Windle Island, Also Rainford has a Boxing Day Bus this year (38A) for the first time

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So why not put singles on off peak.Still say prescot should be a hub.yes they were lowest tender.You put a ridiculous tender in but by putting it in you are still recognised as a tenderer.

Companies regularly do this. 

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They cant just swap Buses between peak and off peak as that would mean having a lot of Buses sat in a depot for hours doing nothing, The 137 is best as a tender now as if it could work commercially Hattons would have done it as they have a reputation of making Tenders they win into Commercial Services

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I believe HATTONS did try to run 137 one time.They even put a BIG WHITE COACH ON!Complaints from the poshies who didn't like to be on a bus route.Plus the original route also ran along 32a route!more complaints.Perhaps HATTONS could run it if the route went via Whiston,Prescot and Lpool.Yikes!!They could then incorporate it on their daytrips or mystery tours packages?

The 137 did run to whiston.Then stopped.

152 runs and ive never seen more than 3 people on it. Wonder why HATTONS never commercially run it.

Buses can be redirected onto other routes.

But i suppose taxpayers paying for half or nearly empty buses is commercially profitable ?

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The 137 was cut back to run Billinge - St Helens only as at the last Bus review it was deemed to costy to keep it going to Prescot, The 139 (Now 289) Replaced it through Nutgrove, Hattons did win the tender for the 139 but when it came up again HTL won it, The fact Hattons did not take it on commercially says it all about the route as Hattons have a reputation to operate a Service commercially where possible. 

The 152 Passenger numbers are actually increasing at a good rate and gets busy around Edge Hill Uni Start/Finish times

The only routes the Tax Payer pays for is them that dont get busy so therefore could not operate without the funding

Passenger numbers for said tenders can be found at the following link: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tender_passenger_number_figures?nocache=incoming-1252760#incoming-1252760

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Long time since St.Helens Corporation transport advertised on the side of their buses ONE PENNY PER MILE.

My fare was 1and a halfpenny.

BE INTERESTING TO EVALUATE COACH TRAVEL AND ANY CROSSOVER TO "BUS" OPERATIONS IN A CO LIKE HATTONS.Which is more financially viable?I bet one is subsidising the other! 

added 4 minutes later

The most common aspect is MARGINAL COST.

Its like hotel rooms.You cannot get back the loss of a day usage.So you can run some aspects on marginal cost basis.

You can also set"losses" against other aspects as long as the whole business is run properly.

 

 

 

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Both sides of Hattons makes money, The Coach side for example bought out another operator only a couple of years ago (Ashcrofts?). The Bus Side has recently gained another contract all the way in Bootle

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It was George Ashtons. didn't need to do much to take over though.

The company had run for many many years both on football and rugby matches and FABULOUS HOLIDAYS.

Sadly George died and his son took over.

He was not the sort of person for it.He overstretched himself, didn't do the trips advertised on continental hols  CUT COSTS. 

We never travelled on any of HATTONS so expect quite a few moved over from George Ashtons.

Like a couple of similar Coach operators found a money making con by charging HOLIDAYMAKERS to pay to park their cars on his site.

Sadly the site is now a scrapyard! Wonder if HATTONS are into SCRAP COACH/BUS BUSINESS NOW AS WELL-eeh,eeh!!

 

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Ashtons is not a scrap yard anymore, that didn't last long. The sites been empty for a couple of years now apart from a load of pallets of plastic containers being stored there for a while. there was someone checking the place out recently though.

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I will post this here as Relevant to the above, Today i noticed on VOSA that Hattons have cancelled their 140 St Helens - Bold Heath from 21st January 2019 

PC1144732/11 Cancelled
HATTONS TRANSPORT LTD
Route: St. Helens, Bickerstaffe Street to Bold Heath/Lingley Green via Clock Face, St. Helens Junction
Service number: 140 ()
Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Jan 2019

After doing some asking around i was made aware of a Tender that has gone out to replace the Hattons 140 however the start date of it is 28/04/19 (The same date as the St Helens Bus Review) Meaning there would be no Service between 21st Jan and 28th April 2019. 

Also out for tender is a number 39 between St Helens Town Centre and St Helens Junction Railway Station going via Ashtons Green Drive and Baxters Lane. There is 2 Separate Tenders for this (Only one of which will be awarded), One with a Monday - Saturday Service between 07:45 and 17:45, The 2nd Tender includes and Evening and Sunday Tender operating until 22:45. Start date for this is also the 28/04/19

 

Full Details for the above can be found here: https://procontract.due-north.com/Advert?advertId=6be4b31e-7df9-e811-80ef-005056b64545&p=e0cc5631-4690-e511-80fb-000c29c9ba21

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