crank caverns where do they go

[Handsome Johnny]

the camp has been covered on another thread about pow camps, as i said in that one my mates and me used to get into the camp through a hole in the barbed wire, we found badges and buttons from ww2 german uniforms and i found a 1 pfennig coin with the spread eagle and swastika on the front. but there was some confusion as it was never listed as a pow camp, but we definitely found nazi memorabillia in the camp.

[The Captain]

Glad to see this thread is still going 9 years on haha!

[Stoatmolester]

The Anti Aircraft would I suppose have been placed in 'Gun Site Lane', which was the last lane on the right as you came up Crank Road from the direction of Fairfield Hospital/Rainford By pass. It is still there, but no longer has a road sign, which I think it did when I first moved up to Billinge.

The covered reservoir is still there on the right as you follow the track to Delph Cottage/Crank Caverns from Crank. Oddly, if you approach it from the Moss Bank end, it is on the left. Spooky!

The Anti Aircraft would I suppose have been placed in 'Gun Site Lane', which was the last lane on the right as you came up Crank Road from the direction of Fairfield Hospital/Rainford By pass. It is still there, but no longer has a road sign, which I think it did when I first moved up to Billinge.

The covered reservoir is still there on the right as you follow the track to Delph Cottage/Crank Caverns from Crank. Oddly, if you approach it from the Moss Bank end, it is on the left. Spooky!

 

From what I've gathered, there was probably one on the roof of the hut on Billinge Lump.

 

When I was around 10yrs old, a group of us used to go up there quite a lot. You could get inside the hut then. There was a metal ladder embedded into the side wall of the hut and it lead through an aperture to an upper level. There was a 'hexagonal/octagonal(?)' opening out onto the flat roof. Around the middle of the upper floor, there was the remains of what looked like a possible internal wall (or support of some kind) that we used to climb up and out through the hole onto the roof. We would sit up there to eat our jam or paste butties.

 

When I told my granddad all that, he said that there'd been an anti-aircraft gun situated up there - but then again, granddad told me lots of tales that I've since found out were a 'load of old cobblers' .

 

 

Ollie.

 

There was never a gun mounted on the top of the 'Lump.', so your Grandad was indeed 'barking'.. In recent history the lump had a sloping roof.

 

The only military installation on Billinge Hill was an observation post. It is still visible. Below the 'Lump' on the south side, used to be a small concrete 'bunker'. It was maybe 6-8 feet deep at best and not much more square.. It contained an old iron bedstead when I first moved up to Billinge. The 'Bunker' is now capped off with concrete. There are still the remains of the four concrete posts which surrounded the bunker and carried barbed wire. I see them every time I go up there, which is at least once a month.

 

Arch

[Olliebeak]

That's so typical of my grandad, Archie - but what on earth was that 'aperture' in the roof of the hut all about, then . It was a 'bloody big hole with regularly chut/shaped sides'. The edges weren't 'rough concrete' they were 'edged' possibly something like a metal rim - a few of us could have climbed through at the same time, only for the fact that the 'brickwall thing' that we used to stand on for access wasn't big enough for us all at the same time.

 

Wonder if it could have been some kind of 'observation point' - mmmm? Might be worth posting a message on the Billing History/Forum .. .

[Phyll]

I thought someone already said it was once an observation point?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billinge_Hill

 

Anyway, back to Crank Caverns, here are some fairly recent photos on this well known exploration site.

 

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/underground-sites/80446-crank-caverns-crank-mersyside-may-4th-2013-a.html

Edited July 3, 2013 by Phyll

[Alan]

Ollie, when we used to go up there that aperture had a sort of hinged trapdoor that you could go through and get onto the roof. Consistent with it being converted from an old summerhouse into an observation post

 

 

The Anti Aircraft would I suppose have been placed in 'Gun Site Lane', which was the last lane on the right as you came up Crank Road from the direction of Fairfield Hospital/Rainford By pass. It is still there, but no longer has a road sign, which I think it did when I first moved up to Billinge. The covered reservoir is still there on the right as you follow the track to Delph Cottage/Crank Caverns from Crank. Oddly, if you approach it from the Moss Bank end, it is on the left. Spooky!

I can remember there being a gun by that covered reservoir. I think that the old camp down Gun Site Lane housed the searchlight and AA crew who operated near the covered reservoir

Edited July 3, 2013 by Alan

[Olliebeak]

Thanks for that, Alan - was beginning to think 'our little group' must have been the only ones who ever got up onto the roof . At least I know that others remember climbing up too .

 

It was 1962 when we started going there without adult supervision - with Anne Graham in charge of us! Used to get the 99(?) to Kings Moss and then walk up Shaley Brow - stopping off at the little cottage/cafe/shop near the top - turn right through a field that brought us out just in front of the Lump. There was the huge quarry at the rear of the Lump, but also a much smaller one to the side of it. Behind the smaller quarry was quite a large wood that was great for a game of Hide 'n' Seek. Would have loved to have been able to camp up there - proper 'Famous Five' stuff .. .

 

My kids always loved the whole Crank/Rainford/Billinge/Kings Moss thing - and now I'm introducing my grandkids to it as well. They think Carr Mill Dam and Crank Caverns are a real treat of a day out !

Edited July 3, 2013 by Olliebeak

[Nanny Pam]

Don't forget your spray paint seems to be the in thing, who in their right mind would take paint on a walk.

Hope you continue having nice walks with your family Ollie

[chocolate2013]

Hello everyone, I have been going to (and into) the Crank Caverns for what must be years now. I would like to upload some photos and a basic map of the accessible caves and tunnels as they look now. Can anyone tell me how :-/ I clicked the 'image' button but it asks me to enter URL. can't I just copy and paste or something?

[Phyll]

Hi Chocolate2013, to Connect. I for one would love to see your photos etc.

However I am not too computer savvy with all that stuff, perhaps this will help.

 

http://www.sthelens-connect.net/forums/forum-306/announcement-79-picturesphotos-faq/

[chocolate2013]

Hmm I tried the 'more reply options' and still no attachment symbol/option came up, just the same reply window but at the top of the page :-/

[Alan]

My memory of those mine workings must be nearly 60 years old. I'd love to see your map etc. Maybe Le200 or Dave will help

[mally]

I too would like to see your map

[Olliebeak]

Hello everyone, I have been going to (and into) the Crank Caverns for what must be years now. I would like to upload some photos and a basic map of the accessible caves and tunnels as they look now. Can anyone tell me how :-/ I clicked the 'image' button but it asks me to enter URL. can't I just copy and paste or something?

 

Have you tried uploading your pictures to a photo-hosting site - flicker or photobucket, or other similar type of site. You would then need to copy the url that it gives for whichever photos you want to display on Connect.

 

That's how I'd do it - Good Luck. I'm sure there's loads of us on here who would love to see whatever you have to show us as this is just about the most popular thread on Connect.

[chocolate2013]

 

 

Sorry, I know these are only basic but they show the entrance to the main caves and the gated mousey, green areas are rock/ground etc, yellow areas are higher ground, orange areas are lower down and the areas highlighted pink were once entrances/tunnels which lead further in but are now either fully or partly blocked.

 

 

People seem to call several crawl spaces 'the mousey', so for the sake of simplicity I usually call the one in the ditch the 'gated mousey', the one which was further up the hill and to the left of this the 'blocked mousey' (many people will remember these two entrances joining up either along the first tunnel or just after dropping down through the overhang) and the one to the left of the main caves the collapsed mousey because at one time (many moons ago) it could be walked through but the mouth of the cave collapsed leaving the 2ft hole we see now. As far as getting further is concerned, some of these pink areas require only for rocks to be moved (a lot of them though), however most are collapsed as the result of explosives. The man from the council, Harold Green or 'H' as he is usually called is responsible for the numerous gates and locks which are to protect endangered bats and to protect people from possible accidents. The collapsed mousey is arguably the most simple (but not easy) to unblock, by moving rocks. This is the tunnel where people will remember going past a stream and lowering off just after a broken wall to an area with sounds of running water.This was also used in the video on the Myths and Legends of Merseyside as far as I can tell. The roadway which was towards the right of the main caves (Inside) straight to the back and then left has long ago been collapsed as this led far. The only slight possible access is via a twisting tunnel to the right of the blockage which either goes straight ahead or drops to the right, only to join up and continue back underneath yourself. this is extremely dangerous in my opinion as no matter how far you squeeze through, you can't get far enough to access the road way which is at least 5 meters behind at a guess and it's very unstable. The raised chamber inside the gated mousey is probably the only way forwards now, however I have personally dubbed this blockage the 'bitch in the ditch' as it's the most unsafe, unsecure, unstable, remote part of that cavern in my opinion, but one which is potentially blocking a much deeper set of caves and tunnels. Also, access to the roadway and tunnels beyond is still possible from 'secure location' from what I have read somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for taking up so much space guys, I know the pics aren't the best but I had to take a photo of a photo do upload them :-/

[HORT]

That's brill Choclate and welcome to St Helens connect.

 

There have been a number of people on here, over the years promising to post maps, but no-one has until you.

 

Thank you Choclate.

[Dave]

Yeah, thanks chocolate2013. I tidied the images in the second part of your post to use thumbnails that you click to open them in a new tab/window.

[Olliebeak]

Thanks chocolate - as HORT says, loads of people have promised diagrams etc over the lifetime of this thread, but yours are the first that we've actually seen. I'm struggling with the possible rotation of some of the photos, but once down there I suppose it's hard to tell 'which way is up' in a photo.

 

My brother was a frequent visitor to these tunnels when he was in his teens/twenties - and even took my kids down them when they were young. They were gone for around an hour, which had me very worried at the time as one of them was notoriously 'over-adventurous' ..

[Phyll]

Thanks Chocolate for all the great stuff you posted.

[chocolate2013]

Ha thanks all, I know they aren't magnificent but I tried to include most of the detail. I am planning to do a bit of unblocking sometime soon, maybe try to get a few people interested in helping to get it done faster ;-)

[mally]

Cool we should all meet up there one Saturday for a bit of an explore / put me down for it

[chocolate2013]

I'm still trying to picture this ledge which people are talking about being at field level, it's mentioned on a few forums as being at that height, built into the cliff/rock face and more towards the main caves. Could it be that there's an area now overgrown or concealed somehow leading behind most of the blocked entrances? Or it could be the one 2/3 of the way up the bank slightly to the left of the gated mousey, if so that's a s**t load of digging

[HORT]

Choclate, his there a large room down there known as the Cathedral?

Where do you think the underground stream comes from?

[chocolate2013]

Hmm, there are areas which may slightly resemble alters, the first and possibly easiest to get to is inside and to the far right of the main caves. This is what came to mind when I watched the myths and legends of Merseyside years ago. There are what you could call steps at the furthest point leading to a ledge around to the left side along the top. At one point here there appears to be an entrance but if memory serves me correctly it was just the shape of the rock going into a slight alcove. Shortly after dropping through the overhang through the gated mousey, there is another area quite similar but much smaller, this seems to be supported by a large wooden beam going the width of the cave. It also has what might look like steps at the far end. In my opinion, these caves and tunnels went much much further, I couldn't see somebody blocking/dynamiting an entrance which only lead to another 20 ft of tunnel.

With regards to a stream, the tunnel which once led from the collapsed mousey probably crossed a stream from what people seem to recall, which would explain the running water sound further in and after lowering off. Where this comes from or goes is anybody's guess. There is also an area of the gated mousey, just before going around the circular tunnel where water has accumulated, nothing seems to be feeding this though.

Sorry if this is a little confusing. looking at the map I put on of the main caves, this is the area to the far left, but it's upside down. This is my understanding of where the stream would be. After entering the collapsed mousey (top right of this diagram), you would then travel down the passage 30ft until you reach a slit in the ground (first arrow from the top), after dropping down you would travel a possible 300m as somebody estimated to a second slit in the ground (second arrow from the top), after dropping through here the tunnel widens until you come to a stream going the width of the cave (4ft deep and 6ft wide), from here the tunnel could be easily crawled down until you reach a brick/dry stone wall (running 12 ft across the width of the tunnel, some remember this as being partly collapsed), after this you would travel downhill until you reach a circular room with a hole in the floor, a metal bar was supposedly laid across this hole for lowering off (third arrow from the top), after dropping down, the tunnel continues but narrows until sounds of running water can be heard. Obviously this isn't to scale and there may be more detail missed out but from piecing together peoples directions etc it shouldn't be far wrong. I'm sure I read on here maybe that one of the farmers told somebody it had been blocked in the 1970s due to there being an artesian well down there. Now the furthest I believe is accessible is the first arrow from the top.

Thinking about it now, wouldn't that stream be around the same area underground as the stream separating the fields runs over ground? Just a thought as the tunnel seems to go in that direction

[The Captain]

Hi Chocolate,

 

Thanks very much for posting these images. I think HORT mentioned before that people over the years have promised and promised maps. From my knowledge as well the ones you have done are very accurate and highlight how many portals internally in the caverns are blocked.

 

Have you ever been past the dry stone walls? I wonder if they could be taken down with the correct tools. On the note of things coming down, visited the caves the other week and there appears to have been a large rock fall. I know I keep harping on about it but I do think the main caves should be gated over with a locked entrance, they are so dangerous and it would only take somebody to be in there at the wrong time and it would not be worth thinking about.

 

Anyway glad to see this thread is still soldiering on, but we have still not found out where Crank Caverns actually go haha!

 

James x