1 Eccleston Street

[MrFlibble]

Hi

 

Does anybody have any knowledge as to what was at this address in Prescot circa 1924, and what that building is now?

 

It was where my paternal grandfather John Patrick Kelly lived when my uncle William ('Billy') Kelly was born.

 

Any info would be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks!

[gervassutti]

No 1 Eccleston St is recorded in the 'Inns of Prescot and Whiston' as the 'Bull & Dog' public house dating from 1800--1913. Kelly's Commercial Directory for 1913 shows Mrs Ellen Dempsey as the licencee, but Kelly's Commercial Directories for 1918 and 1924 have no record of No1, suggesting it was no longer a commercial premise. No 1 was demolished, and I'm guesstimating, around 30 years ago. Sorry I can't be of more help.

[RATTY]

Probably fell down knowing Prescot

Here are some images of Eccleston Street. I think nos 5+6 are of that end of it. HSBC Bank is at 2 Eccleston Street which would have been opposite. You can just see what looks like a pub on the left dont you think?

http://prescotonline.co.uk/index.php/2013/07/11/eccleston_street_prescot_photos_history/

[gervassutti]

 

 

The photograph is taken looking up the Market Place and facing the "Buck and Dog" public house at No1 Eccleston St, with the white frontage, and another pub next door, the "Derby", at No.3 Eccleston St.

 

(MrFibble, welcome to the Forum; please ignore my earlier ref. to "Bull & Dog"..it should read "Buck & Dog"..too many Brandy & Bombardiers at this time of night).

 

Ratty, your pics are showing, as you say, No 3 Eccleston St, the "Derby", in pic 5; and No1 Eccleston St, the "Buck & Dog", in pic 6.

 

(Not sure why the text is underlined and blue).

 

 

[RATTY]

Thats a good one

 

In the following film at about 12.30 you can see those images a lot bigger and clearer in full screen mode, the second one with the hanging lantern is definitely the right one at 12.32 Eccleston Street from Market Place

 

[stephen nulty]

No 1 was demolished, and I'm guesstimating, around 30 years ago.

 

I would suggest it was more like 70 years since it was demolished. Around the 1940's, perhaps?

[Olliebeak]

Fabulous slideshow of pics there, Ratty - not seen them before. Good to know that somebody had the foresight to photograph/record them before many of them were unfortunately demolished . Since moving up here, I've learned so much more about Prescot - I'll go through them again a bit later on today.

 

I'm looking for an image of what the original 'Elm House' looked like - I think it stood close to where I live, somewhere near where the 'little wooded area' is, between Knowsley Park Lane and Green Road/Egerton Road.

[halj]

Did Madison & King have the next premises as their funeral place?

[GeoffB]

The Buck and Dog building is shown on the 1925 Ordnance Survey

 

Its also on a photo - not sure of year

 

http://www.prescot.org/index.php?id=82&sid=3933&i=62&root=6

[stephen nulty]

I'm looking for an image of what the original 'Elm House' looked like - I think it stood close to where I live, somewhere near where the 'little wooded area' is, between Knowsley Park Lane and Green Road/Egerton Road.

 

No image, I'm afraid, but this map (1908) confirms the location

 

 

[gervassutti]

 

 

Detail from a J. Edwards postcard

[gervassutti]

I would suggest it was more like 70 years since it was demolished. Around the 1940's,

 

Your post set me thinking Steve..and something stirred in the ever--fading recesses of my mind..and I remembered an occasion, as a child, when a Lanchester stood on a piece of waste land on the entrance to Highfield Place. It was for sale for £100 and caused a great deal of interest for those days as there weren't a lot of cars about at the time, let alone a large Lanchester. As Florrie and Wilf Jackson's fish shop across the Highfield Place entrance was still a flourishing business the waste land could only have been the land where the "Buck & Dog" stood which regrettably, and reluctantly, leads me to the conclusion that your assertion that it was demolished in the '40s is probably bl**dy spot on.

[Olliebeak]

 

No image, I'm afraid, but this map (1908) confirms the location ..

 

Thanks, Stephen - that's just about where I thought it was. The flats where I live back onto Park Road and the view from the living room window is down a hill and overlooking that location.

 

Had it still been standing, we'd be looking straight at it . The small wooded area (just a cut-through really) is lovely in the Spring - lots of snowdrops, then daffs and - a bit later - bluebells.

[stephen nulty]

..assertion that it was demolished in the '40s is probably bl**dy spot on.

 

Long before my time, of course, but I knbow that in the 1960's I would walk "up the street" with mum and my granfmother (nin), and as we reached the top of Market Place, my nin would always say something about the slums that they lived in in Highfield Place before they moved to Moss Street in the early 30's. She would invariably comment on what a good job had been made of knocking them down !!

 

 

 

Thanks, Stephen - that's just about where I thought it was. The flats where I live back onto Park Road and the view from the living room window is down a hill and overlooking that location.

 

Had it still been standing, we'd be looking straight at it . The small wooded area (just a cut-through really) is lovely in the Spring - lots of snowdrops, then daffs and - a bit later - bluebells.

 

I've looked thorugh all my records/documents/files but can't find a picture of Elm House. Lots of adverts in the British Newspaper Archive for staff there, though

[MrFlibble]

Thanks for your help

 

All I know is that on my Uncle Billy's Birth Certificate is that my Grandad and Nan Kelly lived at 1 Eccleston Street, Prescot on the 8th August 1924. He was a surface worker at Cronton Colliery.

 

Nobody knows much about him. I have no photos, he died before I was born and even my own dad (Who died 5 years ago), knew nothing about where he lived before he was born in 1940. It is a real mystery.

 

 

From my research I found out that..

 

He wasn't born in Whiston as my dad thought he was. He was born 'In street on the way to Liverpool workhouse' (Now the Royal). He was Illegitimate as his father was unknown. His mother was a Liverpool girl called Ellen Kelly who was a charwoman (Cleaner). She died before he was a year old. It appears he ended up in an orphanage in Everton before finding his way to Whiston Village to complete his final years of schooling. Who he was living with I have know idea. He married my nan in 1922 and was down as living at 2 Greens Row Whiston.

 

He lived in Northumberland terrace, Liverpool before moving to Prescot around 1923/24. He moved to 1 St Helens Road, Prescot by 1927 before moving to Rainhill by the time my dad was born in 1940.

As I say a mystery that I'm determined to solve!!

[jvy20]

Just a thought - did your grandfather serve in WW2 ? His service papers may provide you with some information that would help.

[RATTY]

He may have been transferred from the orphanage in Everton or the workhouse there to the workhouse in Whiston to complete his schooling, Whiston workhouse was 1 Warrington Road.

[stephen nulty]

Here's an ol dpicture of the beginning fo St Helens Road, odd numbers on the left.

 

No 1 is the building creeping in on the left.
Mrs Yates had the Tobacconist at No 3. I suspect this is the property with the sheet over the window as it has a “Fry’s” advertisement above the door.
No 5 was Fowler's Hairdresser.
I don't know who was at No 7
Percival Pownall, a Cycle Maker, at No 9, and his shop is clearly signposted

 

 

[gervassutti]

 

 

 

Here's another old picture to supplement Stephen's last post. It is was taken ca 1904 and shows William Marshall's grocer's shop at No1, St. Helens's Rd, (under the "King's Arms" pub lantern), at the junction with High St, and next door to No 59, High St, the shop of John Edwards, Tobacconist & Stationer, who published the postcard from which this copy was made, and which was purchased from his shop over a century ago. Kelly's Directory for 1924 lists Joseph Smith, greengrocer, living at No.1 St Helens Rd.

[stephen nulty]

Strange how the last two images both show part of No 1 but there doesn't appear to be any complete image of the building.

 

Unless, of course, someone know better...

 

[Mark Evans]

I was born in 1953 and lived on Knowsley Park Lane. My very early memories are of the old Elm House, which stood virtually in the middle of what is now the estate. The land around the house took up almost all of what is now the estate and was surrounded by a high brick wall which was not on a good state of repair. I think there were gates on Knowlsy Park Lane through which you could see the house.. from what I remember the frontage was a symmetrical Georgian house of quite grand proportions with off white stucco rendering. Again the house was not in a good state of repair though I remember being told that it was inhabited by a man whose name escapes me. The land around the house must have been like parkland once but I recall that it had all gone to long grass, brambles and a number of trees, some dead. Because it was an early memory I often wonder about it. I remember the walls coming down, the house being demolished and the estate being built because my dad ad I used to walk around the roads as the houses and foundations were going in. I'm guessing this would be around 1959 or so. Knowsley Park Lane and Park Road we're both unadopted then, and basically just rutted tracks and puddles. Park Road particularly was like a river bed; very rough.