The Old Carrs

[stephen nulty]

When I was a kid in the 1960’s, we used to go down through High Hill and over the railway line to play at “The Old Carrs”. (I think that back then we didn’t realise there were two r’s in that – we though it was old cars!

 

We’d jump over the stream (Prescot Brook) and look for golf balls in the ponds of the golf course, then sell them to the older fellers on Kingsway and Shaw Lane.

 

There was also an “iron well”, which as I recall was a circular brick wall of massive height (it was probably only about 7 foot), from which a constant stream of “iron water” ran, and we all used to drink this because it would make us big and strong!

 

Looking now at the 1935 map of the area, shown below, it appears that “Old Carrs Pit” was the reason for the name. I know that there were a few coal mines in this area, such as Rye Hey, but would anybody know whether the Old Carrs was a coal mine and from where the name originated.

 

Also, what is/was the “Hole I’th wall” shown on the map? I don’t remember anything of that name around there.

 

The M57 runs through this area now.

 

[llanyb]

"Carr" is an old word for wet, often waste-, land - usually overgrown with wetland trees. "Alder Carr" is a common discription of such an environment.

 

Same root goes into the place name Carr Mill in north St Helens.

[jvy20]

You and me both !!!

 

Seen several lads being clever trying to jump the brook and going home soaked. I remember the well vividly but I don't recall the Hole i'th Wall.

 

From where I lived in the prefabs in Preston Avenue it was a convenient way to go to Huyton Quarry on a bicycle - I would imagine it is all blocked off now for 'Health & Safety' - it was a great place to play when I was a kid

[steve.]

This has brought back some memories, now I don't actually remember going down there as a kid, I may have done with my older brother I dunno but I do have memories of my mum saying that's where she did her courting and such, I was born march 1964 but b4 we moved to st helens in late 69 we lived in Dennett Road off Thomas Drive now obviously I was very young but have memories of playing on the fields at the back of Thomas Drive around a pond called keelies or keelys pond I seem to recall a big sign outside a fenced off area that read danger Foot and Mouth keep out I was shit scared of whatever animal lived in their that only had a foot and a mouth.

[RATTY]

I played round there too Steve, there was a thread about it recently. Had 6 cousins in Hayes Ave, a mate in ASh Grove and a few boyfreinds in Shaw Lane and Cross Lane. Did you go to Brier Road youth club ?

 

We used to catch newts at Keeleys, take em home and keep em in biscuit tins lol, no wonder they are endangered now.

[stephen nulty]

John

 

I also remember going home wet myself on more than one occasion. I still smile when I think of my mate Kevin Labuda running up to take a jump over the brook then changing his mind at the last minute..but of course it was too late and he just sort of ran straight into the water. It was a long walk back to Fazackerley Road with wet shoes, socks and pants !!

 

 

But still nothing on the origins of the name?

[stephen nulty]

I found the article below in the Liverpool Mercury of 21st October 1885, which confirms that it was a coal mine, but still nothing on the originl of the name. As llanyb points out, the root of the word has some meaning, but why "Old", I wonder?

 

 

 

Mmm, now also found a reference on t’interweb to the mine in the 1896 list of mines in West Lancashire.

 

It is listed as Carrs Colliery in Prescot, the owner being the Carrs Colliery Co Ltd of Prescot, manager John Atherton, and employing 90 men underground and 24 on the surface.

 

I assume, therefore, that at some point it ceased production and just became know locally as “Old” Carrs Pit, as per the map.

[jvy20]

Found this : Carr - noun - word used in 14th century from Old Norse meaning underbrush.

 

Modern day equivalent is fen - perhaps in the past the Old Carrs was wetland prone to flooding as the path of the brook had not been constructed nor had the well been made.

 

After construction the area dried out eventually but still retained the name Old Carrs - ie used to be a carr - to local people.

[lesB]

Found this : Carr - noun - word used in 14th century from Old Norse meaning underbrush.

 

Modern day equivalent is fen - perhaps in the past the Old Carrs was wetland prone to flooding as the path of the brook had not been constructed nor had the well been made.

 

After construction the area dried out eventually but still retained the name Old Carrs - ie used to be a carr - to local people.

Hi John and others,

I think all the local lads used to drink the "iron water". The scource originated in Preston or so I was told. Stopped drinking the water after someone knocked a hole in the pit head wall,what was floating in there was beyond belief.As nobody died as a result of this consumption I think it gave us natural immunity to infections!!!

Les

[steve.]

what was floating ?

[lesB]

what was floating ?

At least 2 rancid dogs and a few drowned cats!!!!!!

[RickM]

I have just found this site and am quite impressed as other sites, [including one showing photographs of the area], about what I still call The Old Carrs, don't even mention the name and give false information, by saying that Prescot Brook feeds the large pond.

Although I do not live around Prescot anymore, I am very familiar indeed with 'The Old Carrs' area.

 

Regarding why it was called "The Old Carrs", I was long ago informed as such and the topographical evidence indicates as such, [There has been a fairly deepish cutting made to lower the level of Prescot Brook near to where there is two most definitely dodgy, [or they where at the time, immediately after they were constucted in the 1960's and late 1970's], waste water outfalls that came from the 'Rye Hey' part of what was then the 'BICC'], where there is clearly a rise in ground level. This, I feel, clearly indicates that from this point northwards to maybe one or two hundred yards south of 'South Avenue', was, [many years before the golf course artifical pond and islands were constucted], a large lake, and/or a deep bog with a lake in the middle. As other people have advised, the actual word 'carr' means, [from old Lancastrian and even further back], that this was an area of low lying ground, sometimes termed as "waste".

 

More to say on "The Old Carrs" in Prescot, but at this moment I am being zapped by an irritating and seemingly aggressive biting fly and also, I need to get to bed.

PS. I used to paddle in an old metal bath-tub around the 'Old Carrs Pond'.

PPS. More to say on this subject, especially as the ancient town of Prescot would seem to have been swallowed up by Huyton and Liverpool, [ I would have rather have had it been St Helens]. - - - FLOREAT PRESCOTIA - - - !

PPPS. The old mine shaft is STILL there, on the east, [left hand side], just before Prescot Brook goes into a culvert under the M57, [Liverpool Ring Road], motorway. It is covered by a large concrete slab, [known as a 'bisquet', with a concrete plinth set clearly in the middle. To get to it follow the course of the brook to the culvert pipe and then walk over the narrow path to the left hand side of Prescot Brook, where the slab and plinth, covering 'The Old Carrs' mineshaft can be clearly seen. 0248Edit- Presumably it was called 'old', as when the 'cutting', [that is mentined in paragraph two, above], was dug, possibly nearly 200 years ago, it was an then old - and the name stuck. The golf course was originally called 'Hurst Park' and the answers woould lie if one delved deeper into the park's history. - 0307

 

I have just found this site and am quite impressed as other sites, [including one showing photographs of the area], about what I still call The Old Carrs, don't even mention the name and give false information, by saying that Prescot Brook feeds the large pond.

Although I do not live around Prescot anymore, I am very familiar indeed with 'The Old Carrs' area.

 

Regarding why it was called "The Old Carrs", I was long ago informed as such and the topographical evidence indicates as such, [There has been a fairly deepish cutting made to lower the level of Prescot Brook near to where there is two most definitely dodgy, [or they where at the time, immediately after they were constucted in the 1960's and late 1970's], waste water outfalls that came from the 'Rye Hey' part of what was then the 'BICC'], where there is clearly a rise in ground level. This, I feel, clearly indicates that from this point northwards to maybe one or two hundred yards south of 'South Avenue', was, [many years before the golf course artifical pond and islands were constucted], a large lake, and/or a deep bog with a lake in the middle. As other people have advised, the actual word 'carr' means, [from old Lancastrian and even further back], that this was an area of low lying ground, sometimes termed as "waste".

 

More to say on "The Old Carrs" in Prescot, but at this moment I am being zapped by an irritating and seemingly aggressive biting fly and also, I need to get to bed.

PS. I used to paddle in an old metal bath-tub around the 'Old Carrs Pond'.

PPS. More to say on this subject, especially as the ancient town of Prescot would seem to have been swallowed up by Huyton and Liverpool, [ I would have rather have had it been St Helens]. - - - FLOREAT PRESCOTIA - - - !

PPPS. The old mine shaft is STILL there, on the east, [left hand side], just before Prescot Brook goes into a culvert under the M57, [Liverpool Ring Road], motorway. It is covered by a large concrete slab, [known as a 'bisquet', with a concrete plinth set clearly in the middle. To get to it follow the course of the brook to the culvert pipe and then walk over the narrow path to the left hand side of Prescot Brook, where the slab and plinth, covering 'The Old Carrs' mineshaft can be clearly seen. 0248

 

I have tried to edit my post above, but something has clearly gone wrong. [? !!!!!!]

[stephen nulty]

Welcome to the forum, Rick, and thanks for the information.

 

Hope you can share other stories with us old Prescotians

[gypsygeoff]

I used to mate around with Ste Speake from school,he lived in Thomas Drive,we used to frequent the Carrs alot,plus Keeleys.Had many a happy hour on the swing at Keeleys,anyone ever walk across the pipe?

[RickM]

Thanks Stephen for your welcome. I've no idea what went wrong above when I tried to amend it and I don't want to edit it again incase it throws a wobbly again.

If you are an ex-squaddy Stephen, I hope that you have got your Veterans Badge. I am amased how many ex-servicemen are not aware that they are entitled to it for free - and that it IS NOT BLING.

BLING = These so called medals that some individuals wear, that one has to purchase: i.e. you can buy one of these, [a BAOR 'medal'], if you were ever in the forces in BAOR.

 

'Keeleys' - Not familiar with this name, but I am familiar with an old pipe that ran across part of the old 'Whiston Tip'. I think that we used to call that area, 'Tushies', probably because the old Tushingham Brick Works used to be there. I have vague memories of once going there when the brickworks was still operating.

A coach company, or 'charabanc' company used to operate near there too. They were based on the Whiston side of the Manchester railway line, possibly on part of the site of the old Tussingham Brick Works and the charabancs got access to the site through the narrow railway bridge, [that is still there], near to The Quarry Inn.

 

Incidentally, I remember that the railway embankment near to this bridge used to have large fissures in it that used to burn. I think that the reason was that part of the embankment had been constructed of coal slag which, occasionally would self combust. I remember as it seeming to be pretty weird.

 

I have a copy of an old Whiston map that shows all of the islands of The Old Carrs that I will try to get scanned and put up and can I please have your permission to copy the artical about The Old Carrs Pit Fire, Stephen.

Right , I will post this as it is. MON05SEP11/2059

[stephen nulty]

Rick

 

I'm not an ex-squaddie, not sure what gave you that impression

 

The article in my earlier post has come from the Liverpool Mercury archives and I suppose can be reused as required provided the source is acknowledged

[RickM]

Thanks Stephen.

 

I got the impression from the picture that you have put up.

Incidentally, a few other Prescotians and myself would be happy if they would move the War Memorial back to the top of West Street - although that is a different subject.

 

I will refer to the source as 'The Liverpool Mercury', unless you want me to mention your name as well. Not a problem and it is correct so to do. That is when I have the time as I'm pretty busy at the moment, including popping over to Warrington next week for a day. The 'Prescot On Line' site on Facebook is where I was thinking of putting it - but I could mention that it has come from the 'St Helens Connect' pages too.

Thanks R - WED07SEP11/2016

[RickM]

Regarding 'The Old Carrs', in the 1950's when I used to play there, the small lake that was in the middle of the golf course was known as , " The Pleasure ". For whatever reason it was called that, I do not know.

 

This IS marked on the map that you have put up and is shown below the ' u ' of " Golf Course ".

 

There was a pipe that used to take excess water from " The Pleasure " to the main pond complex. The pipe used to emerge at the southern end of the lake system, roughly opposite to the middle of the southern most island. Water always seemed to be flowing from this pipe and sticklebacks occasionally emerged from it too.

 

Sadly, 'The Pleasure' was filled in, in the late 1960's I think and long before the construction of the M57 Motorway.

 

I think this may have been at the same time that bulldozers also destroyed one or two very old sandstone mile and direction posts , that were in 'The Old Carrs' , that indicated the direction and mileage to Prescot, Huyton, Knowsley and maybe Whiston. So sad that this was allowed to happen. I think that these 'Mile Posts' just used the first letter of the place that they were indicating to.

 

R - FRI30SEP11/0129

[Micky]

I remember caddying on Huyton Golf course, in the early 50's a few times for Yanks from Burtonwood, we even cleaned their  cars (Chevrolet, & Buicks they paid us Half a dollar (two & sixpence) a fortune in those days i remember at night belly swimming in the top pond feeling for golf balls in the sludge at the bottom of the pond not the other pond that was said to  be bottomless Ha Ha I believe it was an old mine shaft.