Irish genealogy

[Griffin]

From time to time, people ask about how to look into their Irish family history. There are difficulties with this, arising from the destruction of a lot of civil records during the 1920s. So far, any genealogical research I have done has been into the English side of my family - the Robinsons - and the Griffin side from Ireland has been put, as the Irish say, on the long finger. Last week, however, there was a professional genealogist on RTE's Mooney Show, and I emailed the programme to ask for advice on tracing my Griffin line in the Leonard's Corner area of Dublin. They were unable to deal with it on air, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive this email this morning, and I am reproducing it in case it contains any useful information for anyone else:

 

Dear Mr Griffin,

Sorry that I did not have time to deal with your family history query on air, last week.

However, I have now assessed your information, and note that you should be able to make good progress with your Irish family history research in due course.

First of all, let me tell you the good news that the 1911 and 1901 census returns for all Ireland are currently being digitised, and will be available free –of-charge on the world wide web within the next 2 –3 years. Better still, the digitisation of the 1911 census returns for Dublin city and county have been prioritised, and will be released on the www in late Autumn of this year. Therefore, you should be able to locate the Griffin family within that particular source.

The 1911 census returns for Ireland provide very good information and include three questions for married women, namely –

how long has the present marriage lasted ?

how many children were born alive ?

how many children are still living ?

Whether or not, you await the arrival of the Dublin 1911 census returns on the web, you may decide to take a trip to Dublin to pursue your family history. Most Irish family history can be carried out in Dublin based repositories, so you should be able to make considerable progress with your research, by using genealogical sources held at the General Register Office, the National Library of Ireland and the National Archives of Ireland.

The 1901 and 1911 census returns are held at the National Archives in Dublin . Therefore, information contained within the Griffin return will enable you to seek out the civil record of marriage of your Griffin grand-parents from the General Register Office in Dublin . Irish civil records of marriage for the period –are similar to English ones, insofar as they merely provide the names of the fathers of brides and grooms – and their respective occupations. However, RC Parish registers for that period usually provide the names of mothers – in addition to fathers – and their respective addresses which are sometimes different from addresses of the bride and groom.

If the Griffin family lived in the district of Leonard’s Corner for some time prior to 1906 – you should be able to locate relevant entries of baptism and marriage for family members within the registers of Harrington Street and/or adjoining parishes.

Harrington Street parish registers - up to c. 1900 - are held on micro-film at the National Library of Ireland in Dublin – and date from the 1860s. Earlier records of baptism and marriage for families who lived in the Leonard’s Corner area may be encompassed within the registers of baptism and marriage of St. Nicholas of Myra ( Francis St ) and/or St.Catherine’s – Meath Street . These latter registers of baptism and marriage – up to circa 1880 - are also held at the National Library of Ireland.

I would like to take this opportunity to wish you every success in your family history quest – and hope that you will take some time out to ‘walk in the footsteps’ of your Griffin ancestors – in this very historical area of Dublin city.

 

All good wishes

 

Helen Kelly

[lyghthouse]

That was a really useful post. Thanks for posting.

[Griffin]

The lady who was kind enough to send me the above information has a web site describing her genealogical services. Here is a link to it:

 

http://www.helenkelly.com/

 

The free online assessment service may be of particular interest.

[pooky]

I know a Griffin in Toome, N Ireland (just a piece of useless info)

[Griffin]

If you read the first post in the thread, you'll see a reference to the Dublin 1911 census coming online. This happened yesterday, and I've already found my father's family, and enough information to take the next step - getting hold of my grandparents' marriage certificate - although I'll probably have to go to Ireland to do that. The census is available on this site: http://www.nationalarchives.ie/

 

Also, very importantly, the General Register Office has now moved from Dublin to Roscommon Town:

http://www.groireland.ie/

[Sano]

Hi griffin thanks for that Very helpfull

[splus]

Here is the order in which the Irish 1911 Census is being digitised.

 

Irish Census Records, 1901 and 1911, Now Being Digitized

 

The household returns and ancillary records for the censuses of Ireland of 1901 and 1911, which are in the custody of the National Archives of Ireland (An Chartlann Náisiúnta), represent an extremely valuable part of the Irish national heritage. With this in mind the NA is digitising and making available online all these records at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

 

The records for 1911 are being digitised first, then those for 1901. Starting today (4 December 2007), the records for Dublin in 1911 are available. The order in which counties will be made available after this date is: Kerry, Antrim & Down, Donegal, Cork, Wexford, Galway, King’s County (now known as Offaly), Limerick, Mayo, Waterford, Armagh, Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Fermanagh, Kildare, Kilkenny, Leitrim, Londonderry (also known as Derry), Longford, Louth, Meath, Monaghan, Queen’s County (now known as Laois), Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary, Tyrone, Westmeath and finally Wicklow.

[Griffin]

Noticing that King's County and Queen's County have changed their names since the censuses in question, it also occurs to me that a number of towns and villages have also been renamed since independence, usually because their old names were somewhat imperial or royal in character. Two prime examples would be Queenstown, whence many emigrants sailed to the New World, and now known as Cobh; and Kingstown, now called Dun Laoghaire. Similarly, Portlaoise used to be called Maryborough. There are many others, so anyone researching a place with which they are unfamiliar would be well advised to check up on its name history to avoid confusion. And, in Dublin (and, for all I know, elsewhere), many streets have had their names changed for patriotic reasons. What was Sackville Street in Dublin on the 1911 census is now, of course, O'Connell Street. The present-day Pearse Street would have been called Great Brunswick Street, and so on. When W.B. Yeats wrote, of the new Irish Free State - "A terrible beauty is born," he had no idea how truly he spoke.

[mishka]

If you read the first post in the thread, you'll see a reference to the Dublin 1911 census coming online. This happened yesterday, and I've already found my father's family, and enough information to take the next step - getting hold of my grandparents' marriage certificate - although I'll probably have to go to Ireland to do that. The census is available on this site: http://www.nationalarchives.ie/

 

Also, very importantly, the General Register Office has now moved from Dublin to Roscommon Town:

http://www.groireland.ie/

 

Roscommon 1911 census has been live on line for a year - thanks to the efforts of local volunteers. The other thing is, all written requests have to go to Roscommon, BUT in iorder to view any of the actual records and find bmd etc., you still have to go to Dublin - and I didn't, on my trip there the other week, find them very helpful. The man I spoke to informed me straight off he wasn't a genealogist, had no interest in genealogy, didn't even want to trace his own family, and was totally unhelpful when asked questions as to where to look for particular records. I came home with not much info but an overwhelming urge to deck the that member of staff if I ever see him again.

[Griffin]

I know that none of these records, whether BMD or the Census, was originally intended for genealogical research, and I suppose the officials who find themselves with custody of them are reluctant to take on an extra, unpaid role of genealogist when they see private practitioners in that field earning a lot of money for doing it. Also, with the fuss over decentralisation, maybe everybody at the General Register Office is somewhat fraught at present. But Ireland, probably more than any other country, has a huge, worldwide diaspora who are now curious about their family history. It would be some sort of tribute to the millions (literally) who emigrated over the centuries to create a dedicated genealogical service, run and subsidised by the State, and with access to all their records. And based, realistically, in Dublin.

[nb from rome]

Mishka and Griffin, I'm a bit confused over this division between Dublin and Roscommon. The records are still held in Dublin? You have to go there first? But Mishka says she goes into Roscommon and does look-ups...

OK, concrete question: if I want to search for a marriage, probably in Armagh and probably just before 1864 (it doesn't come up on the LDS transcript of indices) how do I start, and where?

I have the groom's name, the bride's maiden name, and know that their first child was born in Crossmaglen around 1863-4. I have an idea of when they were born - taken from the British census in St Helens after they emigrated from Ireland.

[mishka]

Mishka and Griffin, I'm a bit confused over this division between Dublin and Roscommon. The records are still held in Dublin? You have to go there first? But Mishka says she goes into Roscommon and does look-ups...

OK, concrete question: if I want to search for a marriage, probably in Armagh and probably just before 1864 (it doesn't come up on the LDS transcript of indices) how do I start, and where?

I have the groom's name, the bride's maiden name, and know that their first child was born in Crossmaglen around 1863-4. I have an idea of when they were born - taken from the British census in St Helens after they emigrated from Ireland.

 

pm me with the details and I will phone for you on Monday. Records are held in Roscommon and they are brilliant re helping. Give me the first child's name as well, and I will ask if they have that record. The problem is with Irish records, even though it was made law to register bmd's the Irish did their usual thing and ignored it - they just did what they always did, and the entry was in the townland church where they lived - and that sufficed, and that's where you hit a brick wall. If you don't know the townland, there isn't much hope of finding the church records, but I can possibly find it via Griffiths or the flax records. Copies of certs. are 7 euro and they will post them.

[Griffin]

Mishka is definitely the person to ask about genealogy. I thought the GRO had just upped sticks and moved to Roscommon town as part of the controversial decentralisation programme. I was surprised to discover that they still maintained premises in Dublin, but I have no idea what the rôle of that place is, and how the services on offer there differ from those available at Roscommon.

[mishka]

There is now a website called rootsirish.ie - millions of records and most parts of the Republic are covered, with the last few coming soon. I haven't used the site as I have been giving my brain a rest for a few months but it might be of help.

[gilly]

Without any payments made of any kind,i have traced my English side back to 1642.I have been stuck on my Irish side for the best part of 10 years at 1850.I have just looked at that site spent 5 euros and demolished a brick wall in about 2 minutes!Good link Mish thank you.

[nb from rome]

That's rootsireland I think. I've found some good stuff on there by paying the 5 euros. I've also lost 5 euros several times as the last throw of the dice was not the right one. Make surre you check right as far as you can go before you pay. Still, a valuable resource.

One of the most annoying things about getting Irish certs after registration began is that Roscommon doesn't accept payment online and you have to fax your card number or do other reels and jigs. I found you can get the birth certificates paying online via the Health Authority but not the marriage or death that far back.

It is a challenge but we wouldn't want it easy would we?

[Joytun]

Having a keen interest in Irish Genealogy I thought I would draw attention to http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/. This Archive covers all of Ireland and items are frequently added. All involved are volunteers. The Headstone records (photos, and inscriptions in most cases) are a great favourite. Hope this information helps someone in the future.

[Olliebeak]

for that information, Joytun - can see at least one of mine at first glance .

 

Looking forward to checking it out in more detail when I've got more time to look closely.

[Joytun]

Great - Good luck with your searching.

Some of the contributors may be able to help further. You can write to them if their email addresses are included. Needless to say very few would also happen to have an interest in St.Helens, hence my reason for giving you this advice.

[Covalence]

Roscommon 1911 census has been live on line for a year - thanks to the efforts of local volunteers. The other thing is, all written requests have to go to Roscommon, BUT in iorder to view any of the actual records and find bmd etc., you still have to go to Dublin - and I didn't, on my trip there the other week, find them very helpful. The man I spoke to informed me straight off he wasn't a genealogist, had no interest in genealogy, didn't even want to trace his own family, and was totally unhelpful when asked questions as to where to look for particular records. I came home with not much info but an overwhelming urge to deck the that member of staff if I ever see him again.

 

Sorry it was so painful, that's upsetting.

 

It's been a few years ago, but the last time I was in Dublin, I inquired after family on my mother's side (her grandfather's name was Murphy) at the National Library, which the genealogist in the first post mentioned, and they were quite helpful.

 

They had a listing of all the town records and what had happened to them. My mom's family was from county Cork, and they could pull up a listing and tell me that the church records might have survived but that a fire in the town hall had destroyed many of the town records, for example, and suggested that the best way would probably be to get in touch with the town library and the church first.

 

I haven't yet been able to do that, and the digitized records will be quite welcome for me as well, but thought it might be good to know that there are alternative offices to the town offices.

 

I do some deed and records research * for colonial houses here occasionally, and there is a world of difference between the civil servants in one town, who are pleased to be able to help and very knowledgeable about all kinds of search strategies to try, and those in another town, who can be surly, out to lunch all day, etc.

 

I take it that the former town has a division supervisor who motivates their workers in some very different way than the latter..

 

* That is another way to locate people, by the way; if you have an address you can start going backwards and locate the owners of the building. There will usually be other deeds and sometimes a probated will noted in those records; in a couple of cases, where land was being sold by a family whose father had died, all the children were named because they had each moved away and had to be contacted for a notarized release approving the sale.

 

I found their towns of residence, their spouses' names, and their birth order just by the way they were listed. (I could have also used the name of the notary in their town to research them further if I'd wanted to.)

 

You can also turn up very interesting feuds that way, where families are claiming land or having it reposessed, back and forth, to settle debts, or vendettas, or old grudges.

 

In one case there were 30 years' worth of claims and counter-claims, it made for some very interesting reading..

[Covalence]

Just got this from Legacy, if it's useful to anyone:

 

These are the Latter-Day Saints guys, in Utah; I don't really agree with the church's stance on several things, nor their activities in certain state elections of recent memory, but their genealogy is usually reliable..

 

10% off everything at both www.LegacyFamilyTree.com AND www.FamilyTreeWebinars.com

 

Ireland Genealogy Webinar this week and New Records from FamilySearch Register for Webinar Wednesday - A Treasure Trove of Irish Websites by Judy Wight

If you have Irish ancestors, please join us this Wednesday for A Treasure Trove of Irish Websites - the 5th in a series of Ireland-specific genealogy webinars presented by Accredited Genealogist, Judith Eccles Wight.

[Covalence]

More from the New England Historical Genealogical Society, of which I'm a member, and from which I get a weekly update on nrew programs and database launches:

 

The Riobard O'Dwyer Papers

In 2012, NEHGS acquired the Riobard O'Dwyer Papers, which document the families of the Beara Peninsula in southwest Ireland. Common surnames include Blake, (O')Brien, Connolly, O'Connor, Cronin, Crowley, O'Driscoll, Goggin, Harrington, (O')Leary, Lynch, McCarthy, (O')Sullivan, (O')Shea, and Twomey. The processing of the Riobard O'Dwyer Papers (Mss 1097) was completed in March 2013 and the collection is now open for use by NEHGS members. A more detailed description of this collection will be published in the spring 2013 issue of American Ancestors magazine. Questions about the O'Dwyer Papers or other manuscript collections held by NEHGS can be directed to Tim Salls at TSalls@nehgs.org.

 

If you ever come to Boston to visit this archive site, with its extremely knowledgeable librarian/archivists, be sure to let me know; there's a bunch of great sites for tea and sandwiches across the street.

 

Best--C.

[RATTY]

New records online early

 

http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2016/09/irelands-historical-registers-of-birth.html

[RATTY]

Irish records being really hard and often fruitless, I found the following site quite helpful in that it sends you down a logical path of elimination, also it is quite informative about Irish history of immigration/emigration all over the world, with facts and figures about settlement in Britain, broken down into different areas and general life and work.

It didn't turn up anything new in the records for me but it did confirm that the only place I'm ever likely to find anything is parish records for the whole district of their birth. Just because of the time they came here and their years of birth, all other records are destroyed.

Hope it helps you in your search.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4543181,-2.7006364,97m/data=!3m1!1e3

Edited August 26, 2019 by RATTY

[Phyll]

Sounds good but the link didn't work for me?