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About Lyho47

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  1. Yes, Tony, I have read that book - heartbreaking. I've also read some bits of social history about the lives of our Irish ancestors who settled in the North West, which wasn't so much a life, just an existence. After working as labourers in the alkali works, glass factory or mines, the men in my family all suffered early deaths with one Irish Great Grandfather dying in a workhouse with cause of death "exhaustion" written on his death certificate!
  2. Hello again Tony. I have all the George's on my family tree, but from the dates you've helpfully provided, it seems that Ellen didn't die in childbirth as I assumed, but a few weeks later. All I previously had was from the official death index which just records that she died in the Oct-Dec quarter of 1843, so I assumed wrongly that her death must have coincided with the birth of George. Lawrence was a little older than Robert and I'm assuming that they came to England together and were either brothers or cousins. I also suspect that given the numerous attempts to name a child George, that could have been the name of Robert's father. As you say, a very sad time. My Rozzell family history is a litany of loss and it pains me to think of what hard, tragic lives they led and how much they must have suffered. The George born in 1843 also had a son George. his only child, who died aged 6 years. There's also a record of two teenage grandchildren of Robert's whose deaths are recorded together on the same death index in 1876 which must have been a result of illness or accident. It certainly makes me appreciate how fortunate I am.
  3. Thank you ever so much for that information Tony. You really are very knowledgable and I was clearly making assumptions based on what happens these days. I'm assuming therefore that Ellen was buried at St Mary's (Walton Chapel) which unless I have it wrong would have been a Protestant burial, which means that Ellen was CofE, Robert was RC and their children were all baptised CofE. I haven't found a marriage for Robert and Ellen, gave up trying, and am currently awaiting the result of a search being done on my behalf by a researcher at Liverpool Archives. This is because marriages at St. Mary's, Walton, haven't as yet been put on CD by Lancashire Parish Register Society and consequently aren't available on Ancestry. I'm now intrigued to discover by what means the Whartons were able to buy a grave as I know that my Rozzell ancestors were all labourers and poor, hence Ellen being in a public grave. Once again, thanks for you help and advice.
  4. Yes, you're correct, Joseph was Michael's father. I have him on my tree along with his wife Mary. Jane I hadn't found. Interestingly, Robert's wife Ellen must be buried separately as she died in 1843 as did one of their sons, George. They were living in Old Swan in 1840, so I guess she's buried in that area somewhere, but how strange that Robert wasn't buried with his wife. As for the Wharton grave in St Helen's Cemetery, they certainly seem to have packed them in!
  5. Hello again Tony. I've only just noticed the posting where you mention the Wharton's. Michael Wharton registered Robert's death and was the husband of Robert's daughter Ann. Ann died in 1873 and Michael in 1885, so am guessing that they too were buried in St Helens Cemetery. So, Anne is Robert Rozzell's daughter, Michael Wharton is her husband and Joseph (1857-1920) is their son. I have no record of a Jane. As for them having some money, Michael was a Carter and I can't imagine that paid much. Robert's recorded occupations had been both glass maker and labourer so I can't imagine he had money either. Who knows what creative ways my Irish ancestors may have had for income generation!
  6. Thanks again Tony and unknowingly, you've added a really useful piece of information. The only Rozzell's I've found in my Irish searches were in County Wicklow, but they were all RC so I discounted them because all of Robert's children were baptised in different CofE churches, (St. Mary's Walton on the Hill, and Stanley St. Anne). I've been assuming therefore that Robert was Church of Ireland, but on the basis of the burial location probably not.
  7. Brilliant Tony. Thank you so much. Where did you find that information? I was just about to post an update as I found his death certificate which had him recorded as Robert Rossel. It's little wonder I have problems finding information with the numerous spellings of that surname, especially as he was born in Ireland. I have found census records but no luck with his County of birth in Ireland. Once again, thanks for your help and to halj and Big Jeff for responding.
  8. Thank you very much for searching on my behalf. At least that rules out one possibility.
  9. Thank you Halj. Do you mean the name of the deceased? If so, that is Robert Rozzell died 28 February 1860.
  10. Could anyone please advise me as to where someone who died in 1860 at Liverpool Road, Eccleston would most likely have been buried (CofE). Thanks.
  11. Dear Phyll, Thank you so much, the information you've provided is very helpful. You've helped me (and many others) in the past and your willingness to spend time to assist is very much appreciated. Kind regards Lyho
  12. Hello, Prior to moving into St Helens, my ancestors lived in West Derby. Two baptisms were recorded, one in 1829 and the other 1831. The first is recorded as Walton on the Hill (West Derby Chapel) and the second at the Parish of Walton on the Hill, West Derby. It's possible that they're the same church(?). I'm now wanting to contact the church to enquire about a possible marriage prior to 1829 as there are no records available through the usual genealogy channels. I would be grateful if anyone can advise me as to what these churches are now called and where they are? Thanks Lyho.
  13. Hi Towny, Am still trying! I tried Phyll's suggestion, but couldn't find clues. I have several in my family tree from Ireland, but no trace of any of them in Irish records including those born since 1841 - so frustrating. Good luck in your searches. Best wishes.
  14. Hello there, I don't think so, my line is Thomas Painter (1850) who married Margaret Wharton (1855) both born in St. Helens. The had two children, Margaret A. (1877-1882) and Mary Jane born in 1880. Thomas had a number of brothers and sisters: Hannah (1852), Alice (1861), William (1863), Elizabeth (1865), James (1868), and Ellen (1870). Their mum was called Ann (I think born in Widnes) but I don't have details of dad. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a link somewhere though. I haven't found a Sarah Wharton, but haven't looked as yet. Thanks for your response.
  15. Hi Raymo, I have Painters and Wharton in my family tree. Lyho47
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