108 replies to this topic

[Olliebeak]

I moved to Hard Lane Estate in 1965, but had been visiting the estate since it was first built in about 1955.
Is there anyone else on here who remembers living there as well. In the early days it seemed as though it was out in the wilds with no shops and lots of men with vans selling stuff. There was a Scott's van with bread and cakes and some tinned food. And Alan the Butcher with his little van who used to arrive twice a week. Each time you could give him an order and he would bring it on the next visit. And a fruit and veg van. Eventually we got a row of shops and people were able to get whatever they wanted. I was very young but remember them quite well.

Ollie

[ARJones]

My family were housed in Cartmell Aveune in 1955 and in fact my mum is still there,we were one of the first as there were 4 families living on the estate then as Cartmell was the first to be built and the rest was built around it over the next 2 years.
We played in the empty house shells were chased by the watchmen and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves,todays Hard lane is a very poor excuse for a family estate.Though i dont blame the families on there it is the system we live in and the housing agencies that have thrown togeather young and old ...druggies and thieves onto what once was a real jewel in the crown of this towns corporation housing policy...I know of four families on a police protection scheme on there brought in from other towns ..right or wrong the hard lane residents are stuck with them.ARJ

[Olliebeak]

Hello ARJ

There is someone else from H.L. on here then!!!

My parents and moved to H.L. in 1955 but I remained with my grandparents until 1965 when I joined them and the rest of the family. We were there until early 1970 when we all moved back in with grandad to look after him.

Do you remember that the bus used to go around Windle Hall Drive in the early days, there was a brickbuilt bus shelter on the bottom bend of WHD (facing the houses that backed onto the East Lancs Road)? There was never any provision made for children and teenagers on the estate, apart from a swingpark on Hard Lane in the old quarry area - but you had to cross Hard Lane at quite a dangerous part of the road (there was a blind corner there) to get to it. Clinkham Wood seemed to have alot more facilities for kids with church youth clubs and the Black House - but then again it was a much bigger estate.

We used to go down Furness Avenue and Windle Hall Drive on our roller skates and always had difficulty stopping safely - usually hit a parked car or two on the way down!!!!!

I knew a girl in my class at Rivington Road Juniors who lived in Cartmell Ave. Her name was Anne Benton and I think she lived somewhere near the bend in the Ave. I don't remember which Secondary School she went on to cos I never saw her again after we left Rivvy (July 1962).

I'm sorry to hear that the estate has gone downhill, like many others these days.
It was quite nice when I lived there, even though there were lots of kids around.

Thanks for the memories - Ollie

[ARJones]

Ann Benton eh...now that brings a tear to my eyes...She lived next door to me her dad was a rent man for the corpy and they were rich...well as far as we were concerned anyway..Ann was my "sort of" girlfriend she used to follow me around like a little puppy dog after I kissed her once...and her family took me to Blackpool one day just to keep her company..that was a great day out no expence spared even ate lobster in a posh restaraunt ..Nothing ever came of it though as I went into the Navy and lost touch when they moved to prescott...I met her again one time at a Pilks dance at Ruskin drive...now at that time I have to admitt I wished I was the puppy dog on her lap..
You missed the good winters when we used to sledge down windle hall drive then,no cars could get on or off the estate for over a week..yes the bus never ran for very long ..the powers that be deemed the service unprofitable as the 6 stopped at the top of the estate and the 93 at the bottom..it was 40 odd years before they started up a service again albeit a mini bus service.
Where you from Furness Avenue ??? ARJ

[ARJones]

She carried on at Rivvy road seniors although she was a couple of years younger than me...I went to St Marys Keswick Road.."The mixed St Trinians of St Helens"
To say it was rough was an understatement..the walls were platerboard and fiberglass insulating and where kids had knocked holes in it you could listen to two lessons at once...ARJ

[Olliebeak]

Hello again ARJ -

Yeah I missed the snowy winter of 1962/63 but it was a good one in Queens Rec (I was living in Lingholme Road then). That was my first year at Cowley Girls. We had great fun on the Bunny Hills (the old air raid shelters) that got covered in snow that winter. We risked life and limb climbing them in the ice to slide down the sides on our bums. Many a gaberdine mac got the a*** worn out of it that winter!!!!!

I remember St. Mary's cos I went to Sunday School there - the hall was like a church when the shutters were removed. Behind them were the choir stalls and altar. You kids may not have known that at the time. We also had the Pathfinder youth club in there on a tuesday evening.

Us C.G.'s got the p*** taken out of us by St.Mary's kids about our black stockings that we were allowed to wear in the winter months. Wouldn't be allowed now - black stockings and sussies for school, hehe!!!!!

I lived at 77 Windle Hall Drive (in the third cul-de-sac from the shops) next-door-but-one to Brian and David Fishwick. Other kids we hung around with were Georgie Parr, Christine Paige, Tommy Evans, Peter/Alison/Paul Roberts (Alison was killed in a car accident near Windle Lights), Brian/Gordon Edgerton (Furness Ave), Karen Moorst (also Furness Ave - dad worked on the buses), Johnny Whittle (Furness Ave), Linda/Doreen/Olga/Kenny/Paul Cheshire (Wyresdale Ave), Johnny/Peter/Maureen Urbanowski (Furness Ave), Linda Conqueror 25 WHD, George Parr (Whalley Ave), Keith/Ian Finney (Whalley Ave), Brian Nevin (Whalley Ave - related to THE Nevins). I also remember Johnny and Joannie Mather from further down WHD nearer to where you lived, but they didn't bother coming up to our end of the estate very much - had their own little crowd! I'm sure there were others that we knew - but my mind has drawn a blank for now. Names take some digging out of the deepest, darkest recesses these days, lol!!!

Do any of those names ring bells with you?

Did you work at Pilks? cos you mentioned a Pilks Dance at Ruskin Drive? Most ordinary Pilks dances were held out of town but the Christmas ones for each department were often held at Ruskin Drive. I worked at Cowley Hill Works on leaving school (in the Electric Office) and then went to Head Office in the Travel Bureau. After that I worked at GBE (garage at Windle Lights) and then Fibreglass Ravenhead in the Specifications Office. I also worked evenings much of the time in various pubs in St. Helens. Royal Oak (East Lancs Road), Lingholme Hotel, Wheatsheaf (Westfield Street) and Gerrard Arms (Dentons Green).

Ollie

Edited by Olliebeak, 09 September 2004 - 04:28 PM.

[ARJones]

Everyone of those you spoke of I knew,I must know you as I mated with all of those....does Eddie and Arthur Jones ring a bell the two biggest thugs on the estate at the time
My wife lived at number 4 windle hall drive her name was Joan fletcher,I went into the navy with Dave Evans Tommys brother.
Joanie mather was ************** if I remember rightly and her brother John is now a local window cleaner,The urbanowskis were friends of my late father in law frank and their younger brother who killed himself was at St Marys but a few years younger than me.
Yes I knew of the pathfinders at St Marys but did you know i sang in the choir on sundays... B)
Also if you went to Cowley you would know Ann Sheratt and her other friend from moss bank Ann Claire ..my brother courted her for years.
Yes I was a foreman at Triplex for a few years till I decided they were taking the p!$$,those Pilks dances were great but the best ones were held at the Grafton in Liverpool .
Did you know Arthur Johnson he was manager at City road until the late 80s,he was my uncle he was a tough old bird on the staff..
Regards Arj

[Olliebeak]

Hello ARH

I don't remember Eddie and Arthur Jones - names don't ring a bell at all.

Johnny Mather whipped me across the backs of my legs with his metal dog lead (Gypsy the dog - big alsatian) one night - I was wearing a mini skirt at the time. God my legs hurt for ages and I had the imprint of the links across my legs for over a week. Joannie was harder than Johnny though. He robbed my pencil case out of my briefcase one evening and she got it back for me and belted him one. Should have told her about the dog lead incident.

I used to collect the Christian Aid Envelopes on the Estate for about three years so probably knocked on your door sometime.

Another name from deep in the memory - Stirzickers? - in the first cul-de-sac opposite where your wife lived, I think?

Do you remember Mike Perry and Beatrice Stott (eventually married) he was the parish curate and she was a parish worker? He looked like Bamber Gascoigne. He wrote the 'Calypso Carol' that starts 'Come now carry me to Bethlehem' - maybe you might know it, as an ex choirboy, lol. They also used to run the Parish Church Youth Club in the Parochial Hall (opposite the record section of Rothery Radio). And Mr and Mrs Huyton, who used to run the Sunday School at St.Mary's.

Ann Sherratt was on my school dinner table for a year at Cowley (she had blonde hair didn't she),and another girl with her called Judith Simcock. They were a couple of years younger than me. Last time I saw Ann was about 30 years ago in Duke Street - she had a very young child with her but can't remember if it was hers or not. (May have been a nephew or niece).

Another name just came to me. A lad called Louis with red-hair who hung around with the crowd from the first cul-de-sac.

I'll try to dig out some more memories when the brain has had a rest!!!

Ollie

Edited by Olliebeak, 07 October 2004 - 10:30 PM.

[ARJones]

Sorry Ollie the shops were there from 1956 the vans came round anyway..remember Nevins Van coming round you could buy on tick and pay at the end of the week..and I may add that on some days he sold up and never took a penny piece..Do you remember Tommy the milk man he came round till he died in the late 70s and his daughter olwyn took over then.
Its only understanable that you should make that mistake as after all you were only a part time hard laner..
What number did you live in Windlehall drive as my wife has gotten interested now..did a family named
crawley live in your Cul de Sac...??? ARJ

[Olliebeak]

I remember Tommy the milkman, he had a farm in Crank and we kept all our camping gear stored in one of his barns/garages. Nice guy!!!!!

Don't remember anybody called Crawley - maybe in one of the other cul-de-sacs.

Does your wife remember Stirzikers? - she must have lived facing the first c-d-s where they lived.

Did either you or your wife know Mike Callaghan and his mate Steve who lived on Hard Lane itself - about 5 or 6 houses down from WHD? My best friend, Joyce Critchley married Mike in 1973 - he worked in Wages Office at Cowley Hill Works.

We lived in 77 - third cul-de-sac from the shops and it backed onto Furness Avenue. Tommy Evans lived on WHD between our c-d-s and FA. Roberts' lived facing up the c-d-s (32 I think). Dixon's (Johnny, Linda and Susan) lived in 34, and Parr's (Georgie and Anne) lived in 36.

In our c-d-s I remember Gillian Ball (had a younger sister Angela with Down's syndrome, Mr and Mrs Hulce (they were both deaf), Keith ???? (went to Cowley), two girls who weren't allowed to mix with the rest of us (Margaret and ??????), Christine Paige, David and Brian Fishwick, Anne and Keith Bradshaw (both younger than me), Kilgannon's (son called Peter and two girls all older than me)and Linda Atherton. On the corner were Eden's (Christine, Linda and Graham) and then I think it was Evans' house. I think we must have all looked quite a rough bunch when we were all hanging around together. But we never got into any trouble - but could be quite noisey and were always getting told off by Mrs. Roberts cos she had a young child in bed early. She must have hated us all at the time. I thought alot about her years later, when my own kids were young and getting disturbed at night. True what they say - what goes around comes around.

I was only a part-timer until 1965 - then I lived there properly. I was only 4 when mum and dad first moved there.

There was myself (Lilian) and my younger sisters, Susan and Audrey, and our even younger brother Alan.

Memory is drying up again lol

Ollie

[Olliebeak]

Hello bobhill

Margaret Kilgallon/Kilgannon lived next door to us at 79 WHD on Hard Lane Estate. She had a sister with blonde hair (can't remember her name) and a brother Peter. They left around 1967 to go live on Prescot Road near Toll Bar.

They were all a little bit older than myself and the ones I hung around with, and all us girls were really jealous of both girls cos the lads we fancied all fancied both of them. On the other hand, Peter weren't half bad!!!

Ollie

(Dave - Sorry if this breaks the rule about not discussing living people. But nothing nasty is meant by it, honest!)

[peterg]

Quote

Margaret Killgallon Lived on the Hard Lane Estate and was very good looking girl with dark hair ,had a date with her once but I didn't turn up .what a bloody idiot!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Olliebeak & Bobbill I am Margaret Kilgallon's cousin and she did turn into a cracker,she lives at Sale with her husband Phil and her sister's name is Ann she and her husband had a pub at Sale, Peter lives on the Wirral. Their mam and dad also live at Sale. I dont live at Sale I live in Cleveland Qld. Australia.

[Olliebeak]

Hello Peter g

Thank you so much for the news of the Kilgallon family. We lost track of them after they moved to Prescot Road. I think that your uncle Mr K used to work for Greenalls Brewery in some capacity.

None of them would remember me very well because I didn't live nextdoor to them for very long (was brought up by my grandparents) but they may remember my sister Susan. The strange thing is that Susan and her family live on the Wirral, where you tell me that Peter is living now. What a coincidence! Our mother also lives with Susan these days, but before retiring mum was a housekeeper in Cheshire. If she had known that Mr and Mrs K were in Cheshire, I'm sure she would have made some kind of attempt to look them up.

If you are in contact with any of them please pass on the name of the Thompson family from Windle Hall Drive. Harold (my father) died in 1982, Prue (mum) is now retired and living with Susan and her family in Liscard, Wirral. Susan is a teaching assistant, specialising in children with learning and emotional difficulties.

Once again thank you very much,

Ollie (Lilian Thompson)

[HORT]

I can remember many of those people mentioned above. Mike Callaghan has been a friend of mine all my life and still is. He lives in Llangollen now. Brian Nevin was another who I knew well. He moved to Japan and became a fluent Japanese speaker then married a Japanese woman. He made his living as a deep sea diver.

Some other names that have not been mentioned are the Ballet dancer - Lynn Pickavance from Cartmell Ave, no 17 if my memory serves me well. Dennis Moore, cant remember which road he lived in. John Jones on Hard lane and his brother Stuart. Dave Cunliffe lived a little lower down (he played rugby for Warrington)

Then there were the Huttons. One of the young lads was killed by lorry on the East Lancs around 1956. Joey was one of them but It wasn't him that died.

Brian Bonney lived on the estate as well, Furness I think and I recall Ivy Latham also from furness Ave. Was there a young slim attractive girl called Christine Hull from Hard Lane?

Does anyone remeber people from the surrounding areas like princess Ave, Rivington Ave and Gamble Ave?

Edited by HORT, 13 October 2004 - 12:13 AM.