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crank caverns where do they goi want to know about crank caverns


603 replies to this topic

#451 OFFLINE   dotcomdan

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 12:21 AM

View Postdaystate, on Mar 1 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. :( sorry . :huh: how do i show me pics????????

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. :( sorry . how do i show me pics????????

When you reply to a post like mine for instance, scroll down below text box to attachments box, click on "browse" and select your picture from your computer and it will appear in the white box next to "browse", then click on "Upload" and it will upload to the white box above which says "Manage Current Attachment" repeat until all yours photos have uploaded then click on them in the "Manage Current Attachments" box and select the left hand side icon. They show as text in the box which is the reply box, scroll down to preview post and if everything is ok, click on add reply. Works for me.


#452 OFFLINE   Archie

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 01:02 AM

Hi,

DotCom.. Sandstone can come in all sorts of colours. The famous one around here is the 'Old Red' as seen in the railway tunnels around Liverpool. Where I'm from, (Nottm) the 'Bunter Sandstone' is predominant. It is mostly a very soft, honey coloured stone, but without too much stratification, so it doesn't split easily like the stone at the caverns. Any sedimentary rock created by the laying down of successive layers of sand is a sandstone. Now. I'm not all that knowledgeable, so, technically it might be officially known as a shale, but I doubt it. What it isn't, is limestone, which is the only rock which forms solution cavities deep underground. ( Well, actually, I believe chalk can form small caves occasionally, but that's rare, as chalk, although chemically the same as limestone, is porous.) Hope that helps.

daystate: All I meant was a long tape measure of the type used by surveyors. Used to come on a reel about 6" diameter. You could do a very simple survey by taking notes like:

" fifty feet straight ahead in 6 foot square passage to right turn into larger passage, continued for 300 feet to low exit on left" etc. Also note if passages sloping down, going level etc.

If you've never been caving before, I'm not surprised you were warm. You were using up a lot of calories creeping about. Also, if this system has no lower exits, there is no real air circulation, so the whole place is like being inside a giant storage radiator there is heat in all the surrounding rocks.

Please be very careful. These are man made holes and therefore not to be trusted. Don't hang about under anything which looks remotely unstable. It takes a surprisingly small lump of rock to crush the life out of you.

If you've never been in a cave without lights, you've never experienced real darkness. We are used to the fact that if you look for long enough in the dark, you'll see something. This does not apply underground. If you lose your light you are stuffed.
Take a good torch, or ideally a headlamp. If you're not in water, a walker's headlamp should be fine. Take spare batteries AND bulbs. Or take a wind up torch for back-up. I used to use an Oldham miner's re chargeable battery lamp, backed up by a light and portable carbide lamp, plus a few candles. (ie, back up, for back up, for back up. ) Lighters can be very unreliable, especially in damp/wet conditions, so use matches. Get some ordinary matches (ie, not the brown safety matches, but the red or blue 'strike anywhere' matches. They can be waterproofed by dipping the heads in melted candle wax. Keep them in a small cylindrical screw top plastic bottle like the ones used for some tablets, or a plastic film canister. You can glue a bit of sandpaper inside the lid for striking.

And wear a hard hat! At the very least it will save a few bumps and bruises... and it might save your life.

I must admit I'm getting very tempted to get my old boots and hard hat and come along for a look..

It is possible to post pictures direct to the site as attachments, but it is easier to do it by posting them to a photo hosting web site first. It nearly drove me mad last year till I got it. Try this.

1. Go to www.flickr.com and create an account, it's free.

In your homepage click 'upload photos'

Ignore the rest of the stuff on the page and go to where it says. 'psst.. looking for our basic uploader?' at the bottom and click on this.

Click 'browse' in one of the little windows and find the photo you want in your computer. You can do this up to about 5/6 times per session.
When you've identified the pics, click 'upload' and wait while your pics upload to flickr. This can take a few minutes. Once they appear in flickr, click save.

Then double click on any of your pics. It will open up, with lots of options above it. You can edit it if you want. Otherwise just click 'all sizes.'
From here, select whether you want to upload small, medium or large images. TIP. The large tend to be a bit too large for posting to web sites, so try the medium first. As you get more used to it, you can resize images etc., in the 'Edit' function, to get exactly what you want.

When you've selected a size, scroll down the page and where it says 'grab the URL', copy the URL of your pic. (highlight, right click, 'copy')

Go to your post in Connect and click the image button This is in the little row of icons just above your posting window. If you hover over it it's the one that says, 'Insert Image'. Click on it and a little ldialogue box opens. It usually already has 'HTTP' in there, so delete that because it's already in the link you copied earlier.

Paste your link, click OK and your done!! You can now add normal text above or below your picture.

It sounds far worse than it is. Once you get the hang of it, it is second nature. I do it all the time now.

#453 OFFLINE   Olliebeak

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 08:14 AM

daystate - good advice there from Archie about going in them tunnels/caves.

Here's a bit more - Tell somebody where you're going, AND what time you expect to be back out. Otherwise nobody will realise if you're stuck down there. No point in leaving a note at the cave entrance - don't know how long it would be before somebody came along and found it.

#454 OFFLINE   Archie

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 01:02 PM

View PostOlliebeak, on Mar 2 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

daystate - good advice there from Archie about going in them tunnels/caves.

Here's a bit more - Tell somebody where you're going, AND what time you expect to be back out. Otherwise nobody will realise if you're stuck down there. No point in leaving a note at the cave entrance - don't know how long it would be before somebody came along and found it.

Excellent point Ollie, which I really should have made myself..... :blush:

#455 OFFLINE   daystate

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 02:57 PM

Sorry guys call me thick, but i cant see an "attachment" box anywhere? Just a "toggle side panel" box and a "BB code help" box, below that post options, then post icons, then Add reply and preview post :any-help:

#456 OFFLINE   Griffin

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:40 PM

This probably depends on what button you press to reply in a topic. I just pressed the Add Reply one to make this post. Under the posting box, and the Toggle Side Panel and BB Code Help buttons, I can see the Attachments section which lets you browse your computer files. I assume this is visible with all the skins, but I'm using the Connect Default one. Incidentally, after browsing the computer files, don't forget to press the Upload button. Better still, upload your images to Photobucket, then you can post them even if that particular forum doesn't permit attachments.

#457 OFFLINE   daystate

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 05:08 PM

thanks Griffin, but its still not here, however ive just gone on to photography forum and there it is bold as brass so i will try and put some piccys on there, ill let you know if i succeed!!!!!!

#458 OFFLINE   daystate

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:05 PM

Right! At long last me wife has sorted it!!

Just posted 4 pics on the photography forum. Do have some more.





Archie,
Please take a look at my pictures, coz im not convinced its sandstone.

#459 OFFLINE   Griffin

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:15 PM

The received wisdom on here is that Crank Caverns are the remains of a sandstone "delph" or quarry. Various local buildings are cited as having been constructed from the stone. Looking at the photographs, though, I can see small stalactites growing, which are more usually associated with limestone if I'm not mistaken. I wonder why it was necessary to tunnel into the ground to reach the stone? If it was deeply buried, how did they know it was there? Other quarries like the one in Taylor Park were just a large hole in the ground, without the need to prop the roof by the pillar and stall arrangement.

#460 OFFLINE   daystate

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:05 AM

Griffiin........ I wouldnt say it was sandstone either. its dead hard.

#461 OFFLINE   Archie

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:33 PM

I don't think the little 'Stals' prove much one way or the other, they will form pretty much anywhere where there's a water drip and a bit of lime or even, I think, gypsum. They form in buildings, railway tunnels etc.

I still think it is sandstone. There's nothing to say that sandstone has to be soft. (Though a lot is)
The trouble is that I can't remember the definition of limestone. Some of it is pretty much pure Calcium Carbonate, whilst other limestones have a high proportion of sand (Quartz) or other minerals mixed in. I seem to remember many years ago reading a definition, involving percentages of this and that, but I have no idea where. It certainly isn't anything like the limestone I have seen in proper caves. As I said earlier, it may be more correctly classified as a shale, or a mudstone or somesuch. I think we can be certain it is a sedimentary rock!

#462 OFFLINE   dotcomdan

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:35 AM

View PostArchie, on Mar 3 2009, 11:33 PM, said:

As I said earlier, it may be more correctly classified as a shale, or a mudstone or somesuch. I think we can be certain it is a sedimentary rock!

It looks more like that , around here it's called "whinstone" and it is very hard, both of my properties are sandstone and the quarry at Annan is where the sandstone for the foundations of the Statue of Liberty come from, it was taken to America as ballast. Is there a local geology map around anwhere to confirm the rock formations, we have them here so I assume they are available for everywhere.

#463 OFFLINE   donkey o'tay

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:02 AM

I was told by somone who knows about this sort of thing that it is a particularly hard form of sandstone. That's why they followed the seam down after surface quarrying where it poked out to the surface.

#464 OFFLINE   Dave

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:05 PM

There are some docs on the council website. They're PDFs.

Crank Caverns

The Geology of St Helens

#465 OFFLINE   daystate

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:42 PM

A few more pictures on the photography section





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