How many battalions did the South Lancashire Regiment have.

Nimrod

24 by my reckoning, although it’s hard to be 100% certain as these didn’t all exist at the same time, some were merged, others disbanded, etc.

My notes for my Prescot Roll of Honour show the following:-

1st Battalion
2nd Battalion
3rd (Special Reserve) Battalion
Depot Batallion

4th Battalion (Territorial Army)
2nd/4th Battalion, Territorial Army
3rd/4th Battalion, Territorial Army
5th (Rifle) Battalion, Territorial Army
2nd/5th (Rifle) Battalion, Territorial Army
3rd/5th Battalion, Territorial Army

6th (Service) Battalion
7th (Service) Battalion
8th (Service) Battalion
9th (Service) Battalion
10th (Service) Battalion
11th (Service) Battalion (St Helens Pioneers)
12th (Service) Battalion
13th (Service) Battalion
14th (Territorial) Battalion
15th (Transport Workers) Battalion
16th (Transport Workers) Battalion
17th (Transport Workers) Battalion
18th Battalion (effectively still born – formed then immediately merged with the survivors of the 11th)

4th (Training Reserve) Battalion (Territorial Force) (formed from 3/4th and 3/5th Battalions)

Anything that anybody can add to his would be gratefully received.

EDIT - I should have added that this refers to the Great War period, 1914-1919

Many thanks Stephen

Regards Nimrod

Stephen, could I also ask which ones have war diaries available at the National Archives?

My husband's Great Grandfather, George Taylor, has the '4th Battalion' of the South Lancs, listed on his death certificate.

In theory, all those which saw overseas service should have a War Diary at the NA. But only a few of them are accessible via DocumentsOnline (at £3.50 each) and none for the 4th Battalion are available via this route.

This means that you'll have to visit the NA yourself (or get a researcher to do so) and copy them. You can request a price from them for the NA staff to do it but I think the cost for this would be restrictive.

Is there a specific period in which you're interested? I have the regimental history and might be able to help with basic details.

Do you have his number and date of death?

There appear to be two Diaries for the 4th Bn held at Kew.

They embarked at Southampton for le Havre on 12th February 1915.

WO95/1414 is the diary for 1915 and WO95/2917 is for the period 1916-1919.

If you choose the digital express service, they will copy no more than 10 pages for £8.50. Alternatively, you can request an estimate for copying the lot. If it takes them longer than about 20 minutes to prepare the estimate, then they won’t provide one and they’ll tell you to visit in person or to use a researcher. In my experience, you can reasonably expect the average diary to use about 4-5 pages to cover a month, though they vary wildly – quiet periods could see two weeks on a single page, times of battle often have one day per page.

After all my years of military research, I still struggle to find my way around the NA site and wish you the best of luck if you pay it a visit !!!

Thanks Stephen,

I'm glad its not just me who finds the NA a headache! I used to go into London about twice a year (let off from the kids for good behaviour!) and visit the FRC and/or the FH fair. I found the FRC perfectly good to use, but since it's shut I've tried the NA on 2 occasions and frankly it drives me nuts. I follow the trail of numbers round the place, from file to drawer and then another file etc etc and then end up finding nothing and not sure whether there really is nothing or not! Aargh! It was only through a relative giving me the microfilm number for one military ancestor that I got anything on the first visit. The second trip was only made a bit less frustrating by using the 1911 census and finding some medal cards.

'Return of men of the 4^th Battalion The South Lancashire Regiment, killed in action or who have died whilst on service abroad in the war of 1914 to 1921':
George Taylor, Pte 2305 died age 31 of 'natural causes' 6th November 1916 'France'
though the CWGC site shows him as buried in Belgium at the VLAMERTINGHE military cemetary and aged 32

Confusingly the CWGC and the medal card actually state he was in the 1/5 Battalion S Lancs, now I look at them, so there is some discrepancy between the death certificate and the medal card/CWGC

The medal card has both red and blue ink onit, with the red South Lanc, Pte and 2305 bit having 1/5 written before it in blue, then ditto underneath in blue with something that I can't quite make out (4? then C?pe) under rank.
And Theatre of war: W France: date entered: 13. 2. 15

If you can explain what that is about I'd be grateful, let me know if you would like me to e-mail the jpeg of the medal card to you.

I wanted to know what the battalion/s he was in did whilst he was with them and maybe for a few months after he died. But now it looks more confusing than I initially thought.

Cindy

Nothing is ever easy!! I think on balance that he was serving with the 1/5th Bn, but you would have to look at the actual Medal Rolls at Kew, using the references on the card, to find out for absolute certain.

The mark that you thought was a “4” on the card is an asterisk which corresponds to the roll number shown lower down the card and indicates that this is the rank/number against which the medals were issued.

We’re not helped by battalion numbering, which was duplicated across battalions before 1917. So 2305 in the 1/5th Bn was issued at St Helens in August 1914, whilst 2305 for the 4th Bn was issued at Warrington in September 1914.

The 1/5th was a Territorial Battalion, and given his age he had probably served as a Territorial for a four year stint earlier in the century, then rushed out to enlist on the outbreak of war.

His “Date of Entry”, 13/02/1915, might give us a clue. This was actually the date on which he boarded ship, and the 1/5th sailed on the 13th whilst the 4th had sailed the previous day. Bteween then and November 1916, he could of course have been transferred between battalions.

If he was with the 4th Bn, the regimental history states “At the beginning of October, the battalion moved to Poperhinge and was thus once more back amid the scenes of its first experiences on the Western Front. The Battalion remained in the Ypres area for the rest of 1916 and the time passed without any outstanding incident”.

But the 1/5th was also in the Salient at the same time, although it was noted as a relatively quiet sector then, with both sides recovering from the exertions of the summer Somme campaign……and although they didn’t know it at the time, preparing for the Third Battle of Ypres – Passchendaele – in July 1917.

I have the diary for the 1/5th covering that period and it states that they arrived in billets in Ypres on 1st November, provided working parties for the next few days, undertook a trench raid and identified German units, basically just the normal day to day trench activity.

Vlamertinghe Cemetery was used extensively by field hospitals and casualty clearing stations. It is in Flanders, and you need to bear in mind that the theatre of war was generally referred to as Flanders & France, so your comment about him dying in France makes more sense.

I have checked through my records but I have no note of George, nor photographs, I’m afraid. His records have not survived, one of some 60% of men for whom this is the case.

Hope this helps in some way

Thank you so much for that Stephen

I think that is pretty much the best I could have hoped for. I will check on the medal rolls next time I go to Kew.

It is highly likely he did enlist with the 1/5 as he was in St helens and not Wigan at the time. But as you say he could well have switched between the 2, especially as they were in the same area for a time. Its a shame there is no record of what caused his death, but this is far more than I have on any other of my ancestors, so it is great. I'll cut and paste your reply right now so I don't loose it!

I do have a picture of him in his uniform, which I took from a huge 'tinted' photograph which a member of the family has on their wall, including a couple of postcards, one of which was a picture of my husband's grandmother who was born about a month after he left, letting him know she had arrived safely.

I'm not doing too badly then, I have 2 I can't find, (one I've asked about before, which I think you looked for, for me) but I am lucky enough to have found 2 sets of records for ancestors, one was Arthur Ingham of the 7th SLR Pte 12354, he joined in St Helens, 3. 9. 1914 but was a resident of Woolton. He entered the theatre of war (France) on 18.7.15 and was discharged as being 'physically unfit' 31.3.16
Lots of sheets on him, but relatively little information considering all the paperwork.
I know he may be out of your area, but do you have a NA reference for the 7th diary and I'll give that one a go.

Cheers
Cindy

The 7th Bn War Diary is WO95/2081 covering July 1915 to February 1918, when the battalion was disbanded.

They had sailed for France on 17th July aboard s.s. "Onward, arriving at Bolougne and immediately moving to billets close to St Omer. It is noted in the history that they were troubled by new boots which had been issued just prior to leaving England, and many men had to fall out with sore feet as they marched off to war