575 replies to this topic

[splus]

What lake is your dad talking about James? Where does he fish?

[james seddon]

its a small lake off a windy rode that links billinge to crank and the red cat pub. to be honest i dont no bcaus i never really go fishing with him. he goes rainford res sometimes i no that but im not sure where else he goes. he said summut now dont quote me on this bcaus im probably wrong- about usind a ledger and it went very deep in one area in the lake, so i mean i dont no this cud be the enterance. good news is i was talkin to this old fella in rainford village the ova day n he said they are gonna giev crank a big cleanup (the caverns i mean not the village as its lovely). ill ask my dad about the lake n where he fishes n get back to you, he aint been for a while tho bcaus there was a mouse in the shed and it ate all his nets lol

[james seddon]

if ppl are viewing this and no enething iven if its stupid plase say, or if they no of ene other caves in st.helens

[splus]

Can't help you James. Sorry. I read it with interest though.

[Dave]

My dad used to tell me of times when he'd go down the mouse hole with his mates as a lad. They'd go in with candles and a huge length of string so they could find their way back. I'll ask him about it when I see him.

[james seddon]

thanks alot dave

[james seddon]

according to a mao the caverns have a large deep shaft inside them going down threehundred feet to more caverns, what do ppl rekon, seems a bit far fetched to me

[ARJones]

Hi Arch..Dont want to p!$$ on the thread and spoil all the doubters ,but when i was a kid there were two open caves that ran for over 3 miles. One "The mousies hole" came to an abrupt end and often flooded due to a stream running across it about a mile in...which at times you really needed to belly crawl to get through...The other was the "blue lagoon" which was a underground lake about 50 meters across which also was around 3 miles in..I believe the stream in the other cave ran off from this lake...I used to frequent both of those caves as a kid and was an excellent caver and took kids in there "for a price" usually a couple of woodbines...Both those caves were early sandstone slate mines and were this was closed off in 1968 due to an accident with young kids getting lost down there...The farmer at the side of the caverns will verify my story as we often dropped in his place to dry off and have a few home brews with him...I think his name was Derek something or other...The bigger caves are still open and only run back around 30 metres but are very high...Anyone wishing to test my knowledge I would be only too happy to take you to the blocked up cavers ...ARJ

[Archie]

Hello ARJ,

I'm a bit mystified here, as although I don't know you, I get the impression you're a sensible sort of bloke. I went into the caverns in the mid seventies, when I couldn't do any proper caving in Yorkshire as I was recovering from a cartilage job on my knee. I went in with another bloke who was a good caver. We started in the big obvious entrances, all of which led back to very unstable closed down collapses after a few yards. There was one fairly promising way on, but it looked very unstable, and in any case, I couldn't get into it,'cos my leg wouldn't bend enough.

Next, we went down into the hollow on the left, as you look at the main rock face of the caverns. There were a couple of decent sized tunnels which led nowhere, and there was the 'moggy hole'. This led into a lowish 'bedding plane', sloping down, and leading to a passage on the right. This led to a 'round trip', of about ten minutes duration. There was a point where there was a bit of crumbled stone slipping in from the field above, and a few 'stals' of the straw variety, only a couple of inches long, of the type which will even form in buildings, given the right conditions and a couple of decades. I was an experienced enough caver to know that the way on isn't always obvious, but a lot of searching round with our 'Oldham' miners lamps showed up nothing else. The last time I looked up there, a couple of years ago, even the moggy hole was buried in assorted crap, presumably dumped by the local farmer.

I've done some of the biggest caves in this country. ( Pen-Y-Ghent Pot, Simpsons Pot, Tatum Wife Hole, Gaping Ghyll,The Lancaster Hole/Ease Ghyll System, Alum Pot and associated caves, Aygill Caverns, Pippikin Pot, etc. I've swum across an underground lake in Aygill Caverns, to reach the Precambrian Series. I've also been into Somerset caves such as Swildon's, and Derbyshire caves, such as P8(Jackpot), Carlswark Caverns, etc.

I saw nothing in Crank Caverns to indicate any great depth or distance. In Pippikin Pot, we spent several hours to move about 600yards. Distance (and time) are very deceptive underground.

But mostly, what makes me doubt the legends of Crank Caverns, is common sense. I simply can't see how, even back then, anyone could make money from dragging pretty ordinary stone from three miles in. A cave like Pen-yGhent, is only about 1.5 miles long, yet it presents serious problems for all but the fittest and most experienced cavers. Also, I can't see the geology supporting the idea of underground streams and lakes.

How did you measure your three miles? There was a sump(flooded section) in Swildon's Hole,which took the caving fraternity many years to pass. (I can understand why, as it is in a horrible low wet chamber and I bottled out on it, along with several others). This sump was always reported as being about six feet long, until somebody measured it. It turned out to be no more than 2'6". Funny things happen underground!! Imagine walking overground from Billinge shops, to, say Gerrard's Bridge. I reckon that's roughly three miles. Now imagine doing that in a small passage underground. It will seem much more than three miles.

Another point. Natural caves tend to be reasonably stable, 'cos by definition, it's the weakest bits that have been worn away by water. Man made stuff like Crank, is a lot less stable and a lot more dangerous.

Nevertheless. I'd be delighted if Crank Caverns really were as extensive as you claim. PM me if you want to meet up there.
Arch

[Facboydim]

I've never seen em BUT this guy says he has photographed em and he seems to be pretty serious abut his caving
photo catalogue

[Archie]

Quote

I've never seen em BUT this guy says he has photographed em and he seems to be pretty serious abut his caving
photo catalogue

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Found the site ok, but can't access any photo's from it.

Arch

[nicpenn]

have you put the photos on this site ,and if so where are they

[Dave]

The only picture I can find on the web of the caverns is this one from the Billinge site:

click picture to expand

http://www.billinge-history.com/

[james seddon]

i went up to crank the ova day n took loads of pics, ill post them on here soon

[Dave]

Quote

My dad used to tell me of times when he'd go down the mouse hole with his mates as a lad. They'd go in with candles and a huge length of string so they could find their way back. I'll ask him about it when I see him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

thanks alot dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I asked my dad and he was a bit vague James (he's 68). He said they went down a fair way and nearly got lost (like wow!). Sorry about that.