[Unlucky Pierre]

Gutted! Really? Is there no sign of them anymore? When you talk about the mouse hole being higher up than the gated entrance, do you mean in the field above as someone earlier suggested or do you mean near the main caverns opposite the house? If it was in the field, could anyone put up a flashearth link of the position where it used to be at all? I have looked into a small hole next to one of the main caverns which could possibly be the 'Mousey' that people mention, but that only leads into the far left of the main caverns and that eventually comes to an end too - boo!

[daystate]

I know i was gutted to, I believe the mouse hole to have been in the field above, dont know exactly where But have a ruff idea but that was also gated, so maybe i could get mesen a metal detector and start looking!

[Unlucky Pierre]

Hmm, sounds like a plan, Stan! I wonder if any of the older forum members remember where it was located?

[Dave D]

From deep in the grey matter I seem to recall The Mouse Hole was about 30 yards to the left of The Main Gallery and was slightly elevated they covered it over with a metal grill.

[Unlucky Pierre]

Was it in a ditch at the bottom of a rockface, Dave, or someplace else?

[Dave D]

It was up a slight incline as I said then it dropped down just at the entrance to it alongside a huge slab and yes it was up against the rockface.The metal grill they blocked it off with was hinged off the rockface and then it had bolts welded up to anchor point set in concrete to keep you out.

[oncewasneveragain]

The first memory I have of the caverns was a very long time ago, I was still in primary school, One of the Parrs was one of my best mates at the time and I used to go over to the farm quite often. I remember him asking his mam one day if we could all go up to the CAVES, she bollocked him and as you can guess we didn't go. Years passed, I never heard much about them but I knew about them. A really good mate of mine took me up there about 8 years ago, he used to go there often and used to go down there alot spending a whole day in there. While we were walking around by the main caverns he told me that they don't go far anymore neither does the bottom gated entrance although on that summer day a freezing cold wind was blowing out of it. He said years past rockfalls and man made blockages had sealed the deep caverns down to lower levels which could at one time be accessed from the lower gated entrance. They used to haul stone from a shaft at the bottom of the woods and the workings were several levels deep. The small tunnels were I think dug to source fresh stone. When he used to go in and we're talking probably 20 years ago, there was only one deep entrance which was called the mouse hole. This was above the main caves. I don't know exactly where but I was told by him and another mate of mine that farmer Parr used to back his tractor up by the caverns and fill soil into the mouse hole as the land is his responsibility. People used to unblock it as it was the only entrance to the deeper workings. Eventually farmer Parr got his way and the hole was blocked for good, more soil went on top and it is now well and truly grown over, you probably would never find it! I confirmed this with another friend of mine who told me the exact same story. We're all from Rainford and they used to go up regularaly. Bearing in mind that the mouse hole can't be far from the main caverns and that a tractor can be driven close enough to tip soil onto it gives you an indication of where it was. It led down to the caverns behind the main caverns now blocked by rockfalls and quite possibly blocked deliberately. Noone has ever described this on this site except Winchman who described it on wikipedia. My mate said it was more easily accesable from the field as you would imagine if a tractor could be backed up to it able to dump soil on top. It dropped in at a 45 degree angle and very tight to get through.

I work and live in China now, have done for nearly 2 years but I read this site with great interest. I am trying to get in touch with both lads who knew where the mouse hole was but nothing yet. If I hear anything IT WILL go on this site! If I won the lottery I would definitely hire experts to excavate the caves! My mate who took me up there I've known since god knows when! I hope he can get in touch again and let me know.

Please if your reading this Winchman where did you get your info on Wikipedia from? Also what happened to the cavemaster with all the maps? I also knew a lad with maps but god knows where he is now and I doubt he ever had them. VERY little info exists on these caverns but I believe what my mate told me. He apparently went to the lake, one tunnel leads out onto a stone shelf with nothing but darkness in front. throwing stones returns splashing noises. The torch he had did not reveal what lay beneath!

Also to note, look between crank caverns and Fairfield hos. There are old sandstone workings there that are now filled with water. Very close too! Clearly seen on Google earth!

Keep lookin until I get back!!

Al.

[Alan]

I'm going back over 50 years. If you can imagine standing in front of the caverns looking straight at them. The at about 2-o-clock and at just above the level of the caverns and maybe a couple of feet below the field level there used to be a hole in the rock, about 12" in diameter, that appeared to go straight down. We never called it the Mouse Hole but I think that's what you're on about

[james seddon]

the hole is still there it is at the bottom of the woods just off the road and can be seen by going round the edge of the field.If anybody is up there next time have a look. I am also positive there is also another way in in the main caves at the very back into a corner there is a small tunnel with a bloody big wind coming out of it!

[oncewasneveragain]

The mouse hole is definitely not there any more. Like I say it was deliberately blocked up years ago but it used to be gated. Any hole with a wind coming out was once a possible way in but the wind may be blowng through stone pieces which block the original entrances. Also that wind must be coming from a good distance away tp be so cold! I experienced this from the lowet gated entrance when I went up there, like I say about 8 years ago. I have been there since and there was no wind, very eery though!

The mouse hole is gone blocked up by soil and dirt. It was the only way in hence it was blocked due to the number of people who had pretty much gone missing in there, I think everyone recently was recovered. Parr is a or was a counciller for the Rainford area and I have no doubt that local pressures put on him as well as the fact his kids used to go on missions up there led him to fill the mouse hole in.

Rainford really is an interesting geological area, coal, sandstone etc. When coal and sandstone exist so close together usually great folds exist in the underlying land. The coal and sandstone exist from many thousands of years difference. Voids can form between the two, natural openings which may have been intercepted by man made digs. Who knows! Interesting though!

Keep looking I'll keep trying to get in touch with the guy who has been in there, it's been a long time!

Good luck!

[daystate]

Thanks a lot Al, saves a bit of time looking for it. Maybe then the only way is too get dismantling some of the walls down there in the hope they are deliberate blockages


PS Al if you go too the gallery on the site, in the crank caverns pictures section the last photo is of one of said blockages
on the wall on the left of the shot theres an arrow pointing towardsthe "wall".

This post has been edited by daystate: 12 December 2009 - 03:39 PM

[Unlucky Pierre]

Hi folks, cheers for the replies - I'm glad this thread is up and running again. It's such an interesting place down there and it would be great uncover the mouse hole as the lower workings sound like a very interesting day out! I can understand why it has been closed up in the past though due to safety issues, so maybe if anyone ever did find a way in, it would be better to pm the details to the folks who are interested rather than post them up as we don't want anyone going and hurting themselves down there

[jr_1018]

Hi guys,
Living in Rainford, I had heard about these caverns and vaguely recalled visiting them when I was much younger, so after reading this board I thought I'd go up there again and check them out. I was very surprised to notice that the whole wooded area in which the caverns are situated was quite busy- there were a good dozen or so other people, although it was a Sunday afternoon. Not that much evidence of recent vandalism; most of the litter around seems to be non-alcohol related! With regard to public access, there is definitely a signposted walkway that runs through the area but allegedly the caverns themselves are "not open to the public", although given the lack of anything to enforce that rule (none of the remaining visible caverns appear to be blocked off) this seems more like a way for St Helens Council to shake off any responsibility in case of accidents. The caverns themselves are very interesting but I did find it rather inappropriate that a mother was happy to let her young children run in and out of them when the ground and walls are covered in some sort of slimy substance; it is people like this that will cause the caverns to be all closed off due to "health and safety", I fear. Also noticed that the ground is very uneven so anyone venturing down that way should watch they don't fall head first down any of the hills! Anyway I was wondering, which is supposed to be the cavern that goes the deepest? I was not properly equipped to go exploring but I did have a poke around all those I could easily walk in to and I failed to notice any significant depth :-s. I also did not see any gates or covered up areas. I must say the whole area has a strange aura to it, definitely an eerie place on a cold, winter's afternoon! Whether or not I believe any of the rumours to be true is a different story, however!

Btw I have taken some pictures but they are nothing special...could help people to locate the place, however, so if you want to see them just let me know.

This post has been edited by jr_1018: 08 February 2010 - 02:22 AM

[HORT]

I called in the Brown Cow in Billinge at teatime today and was astounded that the topic of St Helens Connect and Crank Caverns came up. It seems that people do search Google for the caverns and enjoy reading the comments and discussions. Many of the myths about the caverns were mentioned, such as the Cathedral, the underground stream and the stories of human sacrifice. Also mentioned were the claims by some to have maps of the caverns, none of which have been uploaded, the tunnels to Birchley Hall, tunnels to Moss Bank and to St Helens Town Hall, as well as soldiers going down there to retrieve dead bodies.

Now all this and much more has been discussed on this site and it did make me wonder if someone would be willing to extract the stories and compile some sort of book. This would be very interesting reading and perhaps the Council might provide funding for such a project as the stories and myths are obviously stimulating interested and discussion over long periods of time and across the whole community.

[Alan]

What a good idea HORT! I think it's the kind of thing that the Lottery Heritage Fund would help to finance. Check out http://www.hlf.org.uk/Pages/Home.aspx

This post has been edited by Alan: 11 February 2010 - 01:26 PM