30 replies to this topic

[Mark Abbott]

Stephen,

Do you know where this is?

4, Johnsons Court, Prescot, St Helens

Thanks

Mark

[stephen nulty]

Hi Mark

Yes, I know this address. Will send you a map showing it when I get home (if I can find it on my laptop).

[NIMROD]

Anyone know when Highfield Place Prescot ceased to exist and where was it located.

Regards Nimrod

[stephen nulty]

Nimrod

It was demolished in the 1930's and 1940's

It was localted opposite the Victoria/Long Pull, on the site of the current car park. One end opened on to the junction of Market Place/Eccleston Street then it run upwards and turned 90 degrees to the right coming out directly opposite the Long Pull.

If you PM me an email address I can send you a copy of a map showing the street in existence.

My great grandparents and grandparents lived there before moving to Moss Street in the early 1930's. I remember my old nin pointing to a telegraph pole on the car park many years ago and telling me it was in the middle of her old kitchen!

[NIMROD]

stephen nulty, on 09 August 2010 - 07:01 AM, said:

Nimrod

It was demolished in the 1930's and 1940's

It was localted opposite the Victoria/Long Pull, on the site of the current car park. One end opened on to the junction of Market Place/Eccleston Street then it run upwards and turned 90 degrees to the right coming out directly opposite the Long Pull.

If you PM me an email address I can send you a copy of a map showing the street in existence.

My great grandparents and grandparents lived there before moving to Moss Street in the early 1930's. I remember my old nin pointing to a telegraph pole on the car park many years ago and telling me it was in the middle of her old kitchen!

Many thanks Stephen
I have emailed you.

Regards Nimrod

[leschip]

I'm pretty certain that is was known as the Holy Land, due to the number of Catholic families living there.
Les

[john n]

stephen nulty, on 30 January 2009 - 04:05 PM, said:

Anybody looking through the old census records for Prescot will often notice that people lived in such and such a “Court”. We see such as Saggerson’s Court, Taylor’s Court, Parker’s Court, etc., where the “Court” exists in it’s own right, and we also see addresses such as 1 Court, 1 House, Victoria Place. But what exactly was a “Court”?

In his book “Prescot of Yesteryear” (1990, ISBN 0 951 5986 0 0 ), Arthur Roberts explained this all rather well, and so I make no excuses for transcribing his narrative here.

“In an age when Prescot was a compact town, land availability with in its centre was obviously at a premium. Cottages were erected on every piece of land which became vacant. Consequently, a preponderance of these small alleys, or wients, were used for the building of small, unpretentious dwellings, which in many cases housed quite large families. This development may have been dictated by economic conditions, or a sense of fellowship within families - or both. In any event, in pre-Victorian times these cottages sprang up in what must have appeared to be the most unlikely places. Most of these dwellings have now gone, although the sites on which they were erected are in evidence, even today”.

Arthur goes on to describe the location of many of the Courts in the town centre. The Knowsley web site at www.history.knowsley.gov.uk has a photographic section which contains quite a few pictures of these dwellings, and is well worth a look.

It would seem that somebody might erect a few of these dwellings on a particular site and often the result would be titled after the builder, such as Taylor's Court. Sometimes, as can be seen from Victoria Place, they didn't even have a name, just a number - 1 Court, etc.

But be under no illusion; these were slums. My old nin, who was born in 1906 and lived til she was 91, told me about some of them and the appalling conditions in which people lived. Most of them were demolished in the slum clearances of the 1930’s when the large council estates at High Hill and Shaw Lane were built.

Anybody familiar with Prescot will be aware of the proximity of the Plough and Eagle and Child pubs (both now closed but the buildings remain). There’s a small gap between the two buiuldings which a car would just fit through. But in the 1901 census, I found that this “gap” was the site of Lyon’s Court, consisting of 3 small houses.

It would appear that many of these courts were put together in the 1850’s and 1860’s when the large Irish influx occurred. These were usually poor people who couldn’t afford to buy land and so lived in rented accommodation. Maybe just “rooms” in a house and often in one of the Courts.

The early census of 1841 and 1851 refer to a site off Kemble Street, or Hillock Street as it was then, which was known as “The Camp”. Lots of theories exist as to the exact make up of “The Camp”, but it is commonly accepted that it was little more than a shanty town, populated by poor Irish settlers. (Incidentally, if anybody has any firm knowledge of The Camp, I’d be delighted to hear from them).

I suspect that those who lived in The Camp would have seen a move into one of the courts as being a distinctly upward move. It’s all relative, isn’t it?

I was born in 1940 and lived all my single life in Station Road.As I recall I remember two courts in Kemble street.
The first one had its entrance opposite the Zion chapel .You went through an alley and it opened up into a flagged courtyard.I think these buildings were two storey and several families shared a toilet.If you continued through you ended up in an entry behind houses off Cyprus street/Beconsfield street.this used to be my short cut to the Church School in Beconsfield street.
The other one had it's tunnel like entrance between some shops opposite to about the top of Williams street.This court was very similar to the other in both look and facilities.By climbing fences and walls behind here you would end up behind the old Lyme House cinema.
The other court I recall was Yate's court at the bottom of Sewel st.Again this was a short cut to the Old Carrs.
The houses were demolished in the 50's I think, but behind these houses were the remain of earlier buildings before it was a car park.
Hope this helps regards John N

[stephen nulty]

Hello John and welcome to the forum.

I have a very faint memory of the area between Kemble STreet and Eccleston Street before the terraced houses in Kemble Street were demolished. Wasn't there a barbers shop there? Then when they were demolished (late 1960's?) I know there was a flagged area behind there, finishing at a party demolished wall over the other side of which was the cinema (Lennons).

[john n]

stephen nulty, on 09 December 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

Hello John and welcome to the forum.

I have a very faint memory of the area between Kemble STreet and Eccleston Street before the terraced houses in Kemble Street were demolished. Wasn't there a barbers shop there? Then when they were demolished (late 1960's?) I know there was a flagged area behind there, finishing at a party demolished wall over the other side of which was the cinema (Lennons).

Hi Stephen,The barbers shop was next to Hector stanley's paper shop before he moved across the street.
The barbers shop was called Marsdens,It was a typical (anything for the weekend sir ?)barbers of the time.
Next to Hectors shop was an old building accupied at one time by Ernie Hughes,A large red faced feller who sold wood, hardboard nails and stuff.the start of DIY I suppose.Next to this was Johnny Platts butchers where we used to buy our weekend joint.My mum used to give me Ten bob on a Saturday to buy it.Pocket Money was short in those days and needless to say the joint used to get smaller every time mum sent me.(I,ll explain some other time but you can draw your own conclusions).Carrying on eastward along Kemble street Bloors bicycle shop was next.At the time one of the Bloors brothers had an old SS Jaguar with spoked wheels and a fabric top.The bonnet to a kid of my age(about8) looked about six feet long.He used to park it on the waste ground facing the terraced houses that ran to the juction with Aspinall street.After Bloors was a funny little shop up two steps run by a Mrs Mee ?.A dingey little place that sold mainly groceries and some Patent medicines (Indian Brandy was one I recall).Just after this shop was an allyway that ran up and then to then to the right behind the aforementioned terrace.This led to Ronnie Whittles car place but before he occupied it I think it might have been a joiners shop or stables.On theother corner of the allyway way was a ladies drapers shop .I think it was a Miss Rimmer who ran it.
Enough for now.I'll resume my Kemble street wanderings soon, give me a reminder.jnnw40348@blueyonder.co.uk.

[gypsygeoff]

My Father in law was born near the Long Pull,was the area called ''The alps''?

Edited by gypsygeoff, 14 December 2010 - 08:17 PM.

[stephen nulty]

I thought that the area of Bretherton Road/Mines Avenue was "the Alps", but might be wrong.

[jvy20]

Stephen,

You are right - the Alps is Bretherton Road/Mines Avenue area.

John

[stephen nulty]

Actually, John, it might have been you that told me in the first place

Edited by stephen nulty, 15 December 2010 - 04:39 PM.

[john n]

stephen nulty, on 30 March 2010 - 07:00 AM, said:

Catherine

Tea Street ran where present day Leyland Street now lies. It was slightly re-aligned when redeveloped to be Leyland Street in the early part of the 20th Century.

Here's a map of the street, leading up to the Hope and Anchor

My link

Stephan; Looking at the map/sketch I see a reference to Brown's Square.I wonder if there is any connection with Brown's Field later known as The King George v or vi playing fields at the bottom of South Avenue.Maybe they were Prescot land owners at some time.Just wondering. John N

[stephen nulty]

John

I had a feeling that I had some notes about the origins of Brown's Field. I'll have a dig around and see if I can turn anything up.