55 replies to this topic

[Dion]

Besides Dingsdales and Tom Collins does anyone remember any other motorbike dealers in St.Helens, around 1960/1961?
Also did Geneva Motors of Bootle ever have a branch in St.Helens around that time?

[dotcomdan]

Geoff Duke had a shop for years in Dentons Green Lane and there was Webbs in Duke Street and later Fred Hartley's in Kirkland Street. I can't tell you the exact years though. Geneva Motors doesn't ring a bell.

[Griffin]

I never heard of Geneva Motors either. Miss Webb lived in Swinburne Road, and her shop was the one Dingsdales have now in Duke Street. It had a customer entry warning buzzer which operated when you walked on a particular part of the floor. I only remember her selling pedal cycles, but she may have sold motor cycles as well. A slight correction: Geoff Duke's shop was in Greenfield Road, where I think there's now a Tesco Express store. It dealt in Norton, Triumph and BSA machines. It became a branch of Vic Horseman's some time in the sixties, still selling motor bikes, then became a secondhand car showroom. It was originally Mike Drane's, then had a number of subsequent owners until becoming a convenience store some time in the early nineties. Fred Hartley's shop was going in Kirkland Street until the area was redeveloped in the late seventies, and sold secondhand machines at the lower end of the market. Tom Collins in Boundary Road was slightly more upmarket, but the British motor bike industry was in terminal decline in the seventies. By the time, in 1982, that motor bike registrations equalled the all-time record set in 1959, there were virtually no British machines available.

[dotcomdan]

I stand corrected about Greenfield Road, my memory is not what it was, but do you remember Laurie Higgins Shop in Liverpool Road, he made the racing leathers for Geoff Duke. If I remember correctly he lived opposite the Bird i'th Hand next to the Peet School of Dancing. He was a bespoke tailor and again if I remember correctly wore a bowler hat

Edited by dotcomdan, 22 November 2008 - 12:48 AM.

[Dion]

The reason I ask is, I've got an Ariel Arrow that was dispatched to Geneva Motors St.Helens on 18.11.1960,this is according to the Ariel owners club.
I have a duplicate logbook from 1962 and the first entry is Geneva Motors, Bootle.It was registered in St.Helens in May 1961 as ODJ ***.
The owners club records have H.Burrill Greenfield Road Garage in 1951,Geoff Duke in 1956 and Vic Horsman in 1965.
Maybe the shop was Geneva Motors in 1960/61?

[brunty]

geoff dukes shop was taken over by two brothers named johnson in the mid 60s i bought a suzuki from there in 1965
which turned out to be a load of shite they were only there a couple of yrs it went under the name JOHNSONS.

[Dion]

Serves you right for buying 'jap crap'

Edited by Dion, 22 November 2008 - 04:25 PM.

[brunty]

dion, i totaly agree with you mate i had nothing but trouble with it,when i reached 65 mph it started slowing down i
took it back about 6 times.
in the end i exchanged it for a triumph tiger cub which i had for yrs wish i had it now.

[woodsman]

remember quite well a shop in duke street between the Plaza and Lingholme corner which sold motorbikes, always had a Francis Barnett 197 in the window, be about 1958/9

[brunty]

that would be ada webbs woodsy.

[Podstar]

woodsman, on Nov 22 2008, 09:38 PM, said:

remember quite well a shop in duke street between the Plaza and Lingholme corner which sold motorbikes, always had a Francis Barnett 197 in the window, be about 1958/9

Funny you should mention Francis Barnett, my dad had a Falcon 74, which was a 197.
So I dug out his papers for the bike etc, but alas no motorbike dealers from St Helens, but the original owners are listed as, Victor Horsman Ltd, 48/50 Renshaw Street, Liverpool L1.
And that was in October 1955.

My dad had the bike from Dec 1961, bought from Jubilee Cycles Ltd of Earlestown.
His being the 8th and final name in the Registration Book, with a chap called Burrows, of Sutton having it in May 1957, Jubilee Cycles in Aug 1958, a chap called Lewis, of Parr in Sept 1958, and lastly a chap called Maloney, also of Parr (no date), then Jubilee Cycles again in Nov 1961, then as mention my dad had it from Dec 1961 up until we moved in 1970. He left the bike, which was stripped completely down and was too much trouble to cart to the new house in 'kit form' I guess.
The only other St Helens link is that it had it's MOT in Dec 1962 at Jones Garage, Derbyshire Hill Road.

Pete

Edited by Podstar, 22 November 2008 - 10:14 PM.

[Griffin]

I'm glad someone mentioned Francis Barnett. Otherwise, younger members may have gained the impression that British bikes were great and Japanese ones inferior. Certainly, the sort of bikes that Geoff Duke sold were not only beautiful (I spent hours gazing in the window), but largely reliable if operated within their limits. They were mainly four-strokes like Triumph, BSA and Norton. The Francis Barnett represented the unacceptable face of British motorcycling, with its Villiers two-stroke engine and flywheel magneto. The latter relied for its ignition timing on the flywheel being attached to the spindle with a Woodruff key. When this got worn and the flywheel started to move around, the timing became unreliable, and you spent more time kicking it up than riding. Brunty's Suzuki sounds like it was having a partial seizure at 65 mph plus. I assume it was a two-stroke in those days, and would suspect the lubrication. By and large, though, Japanese bikes in the mid-sixties offered a better specification and performance than British machines, and were a lot better value.

[donkey o'tay]

Dion
I ride a 1972 Yamaha XS650 that would challenge what you say.

[Griffin]

Quite right Donks. Japanese bikes were faster except the Yamaha XS650, which wasn't. About the flywheel magneto on the Frantic Banana, the problem was, of course, that it wasn't the 2d key which wore out, but the keyway in the rotor spindle, which was made of much softer steel. From the sixties, or even a bit earlier, the British bike industry embarked on the road to self-destruction by a series of company mergers and badge-engineering, of which the Francis Barnett was an example.

[dotcomdan]

I believe they still make Royal Enfields in India, or they did according to a documentary I watched.